I hope OP's dude will get busy inspecting something else than how clean her apartment is..
Which brings us nicely back to the shamefully late voting rights. Annoying consequences.
One does not have to be a gentleman for this
Even that feeling seems to me to show a tie back to the "traditional" roles. You should feel equal, independent and happy regardless of who pays.
I open doors for men and women, and will pick up the tab (or be treated) by either sex. It's just courtesy and kindness. Why anyone would think it a big deal is beyond me, but if you are going to have a date with someone who does, if you wish to pay, why not beforehand explain that it is your treat?
What a wonderful thread to read on St Stephen's Day.
Right, I think it is great if a female date offers to pay. I wouldn't let her or I would turn it into a game, rock-paper-sissors for the bill or something fun and see how it turns out.
But I'm not Swiss nor have I ever dated one which is the OP's question. My suggestion to the OP, carry on doing what makes you comfortable and the right one will react the right way when you find them. Though WHY are you trying to date a Swissie, with all their inate issues? Is it a need for the passport? Any original EU member can help you there! Is it how they use their tongue (to roll their R's of course)? I would have thought, for an expat, that you would get on better with somebody that has actually left their canton for more than two weeks annual holiday?
Lastly, for everyone, another poster mentioned "kindly inquires what you've selected on the menu and then places the order for you" - I BLOODY HATE THIS, it might just be that my wife changes her mind every thirty seconds which means it is rendered impossible to get right, or it could be that my pronounciation is so poor that I f**k up the order with the waiter and then have to be rescued. Is it important? Do many men do this? Ladies, don't you find this controlling and particularly as an expat with a 'foreign language' menu, a slur against your language skills?
You seem to be someone that really knows it all...
Could someone start a poll: "How much is it worth paying to get laid?"
A couple of coffees at Starbucks = Dirty talk
Glass of wine at a trendy bar = Mild groping
Five course dinner = Full unpleasantness
Or for those in Zürich, you could always take a couple of cans of RedBull to the "Love Boxes" and feel that you sharing a drink made a real difference.
Real answer = guy always pays, otherwise you're just a tight wad loser.
I still remember the conversation my husband I had after a night out with my father and his other half. My father is old school. He opens the car door, helps with the coat, the door, the chair at the dining table...
Our dear Swiss friend I mention sometimes here is the kind of guy I would have dated if I didn't have already found my mister perfect. Each time we see each other, hubby and him will fight over the bill. Never we split. It is us or him who pay it.
I grow up in Quebec and there, guys pay the tab. They never allowed me to pay it, especially when insisting. Same in bars, I don't think I ever manage to buy my own drinks as they kept coming my way. The server will come with a drink, saying it is from the gentleman over there and we will raise our glasses and that's it.
In Turkey, a girl will never pay when out with guys. Even if it is a bunch of friends, guys will never allow us to pay. It is definitely a macho male thing.
Now, take my Turkish husband with my French Canadian father and it is a show to see to which extend they will go to win the bill... They will sneak to pay to the waiter while "going to the bathroom" while my mom and I will roll our eyes over their childish games.
When out with my girls, we take turns. One drink my treat, ok the next is mine, etc.
Last Saturday, we went to an Irish pub and a guy there wanted to buy us drinks so we graciously accept. He came back with one glass to share between the 3 of us...
Judging from the answers on this thread, it is completely justified, that we earn more than our female counterparts.
Hah good point! I was drawing from the conclusions of many other expats who have/are dated/married-split from Swissies.
No idea myself of course, married since mid 90's but just because I haven't dated a Swissie doesn't mean I haven't got dozens of friends that haven't tried - and failed dozens of times.
As I heard one expat say to another on the subject of the guy splitting up "You broke rule number 1, you married a Swissie".
If I was to offer 8 years of observational experience, its something to do with expectations..
I don't get the whole "don't date a Swiss" thing? It's not like any "normal" marriage is likely to last nowadays.
Anyway, I love equality and used to think women should be able to aks men out and pick up the tab. But over time, I learned the sad reality: men that don't ask a woman out are usually not that interested.
So as I grew older I stopped asking men out. Because: if he's not interested enough to ask me out, I just don't feel like wasting time on him.
I guess this also "takes care" of who is paying the bill. When the bill shows up, I will get my wallet, but if he insists on paying, I will let him.
Women are often so busy being independent, that we sometimes forget what men want. Men usually want to feel like men, this sometimes means "chasing after the object of their affection" as well as "picking up the tab". All men want to feel needed, the same as women really. They just have a different way of establishing it.
Now whether you should date such a guy is an entirely different question. I saw someone mention you should just do whatever you're comfortable with and when mr. Right comes along, it will magically work out. I very much agree with this.
And it also justifies the fact that we were allowed to vote only (I mean peculiarities of the meal to be ordered on the date that is...)
This is so true.
Tis human nature. Nothing changes.
It comes down to the very basics of male / female relationships.
It's not even old-fashioned, just classic.
It applies to the younger generations as well, I don't believe it is about to change. It doesn't take anything away from either.
Women love to feel protected and cherished.
Men love to feel protective and admired.
But it's already changed - women go out to work leaving the children with other carers, sometimes the husband is the carer and takes on the traditional wife's role.
The woman's "traditional" role has changed so much in the last one or two generations. Paying your way on a date is hardly an earth-shattering issue, and I don't think most normal men feel in anyway negative towards it.
Anyone likes to feel protective/protected, cherished and admired. It makes no difference what sex you are.
Couldn't agree more. We associate being independent with being strong. But sometimes it takes a lot more strength to depend on someone. (And feel comfortable doing so.)
In the end I managed to find an amazing boyfriend, who is very gentleman-like. He holds the door for me, spoils me with gifts, makes sure I'm always under an umbrella when it rains and carries all the groceries. It took some time getting used to (and some fights too!), but now I wouldn't want it any other way.
At times I indulge him, for example when I fail to open up a jar. Back when I was single I would use a spoon to break the vacuum. Now that I have muscles walking around, I'll just ask my bf. And then he pretends to open it with ease and tells me: "Pfff so easy, I sometimes wonder how you managed to survive without me all this time..."
Saying its just human nature for the guy the pay for her seems to make sense at first glance, but then I have to wonder: why do we assume that behaviour from last century is the default human behaviour? If i say that polygamy and rape are "human nature" i will get groaned at for sure.
It's nice to read..I'm glad people have ideals, noble intentions, I think most people do have them, to some extent, and not for a reason to just feel better about oneself. Mais, human nature also is to push away from feelings and base one's perception on reality and concrete acts. Which are sometimes light years away from actual emotions and noble intentions. It's good to plop down on earth sometimes and keep one's eyes open. I'm not being cynical, just dialectic, the issue is worth it..I like the festive, positive, emotional charge in the thread. Probably just like a lot of people, I am a dreamer sometimes.
Jacek, it was funny. So why would some guys order some really weird stuff on a dinner date? Adventure?
When an off-the-cuff thread about who pays for a coffee on a date becomes "a positively emotionally charged festive dream", it's time to find the WTF icon (or suit/boot up for a Boxing day walk in the rain, in my case)...
There's always some charm and sense of adventure in what we do on first date, what we order and how we react. Sometimes if one loses oneself in a dream date, some faux pass and gaffes may be uttered without intention. We all different.
In our busy 21th century daily schedule, the dates sometimes would boil down to very basic simplistic approach ...
We're not saying that it's human nature for a guy to pay. We're saying that it's human nature to feel wanted, needed etc.
And different men have different ways to establish that they feel wanted/needed.
Some guys like to pick up the tab, some guys even admit to that in this topic. If you like the guy and he insists on doing so, why not let him? Because your pride is stopping you? "I'm an independent woman and make good money, I want to pay because I don't need anyone in this world to pay for me! I can hold my own!" Well, that just seems a bit silly to me.
Let's not deny why people date in the first place... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's to prove how comfortable you are taking care of yourself and not needing anyone in your life.