Having a flexible and responsible nanny did take almost all daughter's salary for the first year she went back to work- but it allowed her to get promotion, so the proportion of salary was less the next year, and less the year after, and the year after that. Sometimes you need to long at the long-term gains, in all sorts of ways, not just financial. It gave the children and parents great stability and emotional balance- and they have great quality time together at week-ends and during holidays- and no-one suffers. Yes, it is all a question of choices and priorities- and I really do admire them. Public systems are great, but you still need back up when things go wrong, illness, etc- especially when you can't rely on family to take up the slack.
We were also rung one morning about half an hour before school saying "teacher ill, please don't come in". I guess they would take your child if you said you were stuck but they sure don't offer.
Other examples of unpredictable hours at his last school are things like going for a walk in the woods and finishing sooner than they thought so home half an hour early, and having a presentation organised and the person did not turn up, so all allowed to go home.
Of course, most people in the village where these last happened were supremely unconcerned. The children's granny, aunt, great uncle and second cousin third removed all lived in the same shared house. Someone was bound to pick up the stray child.
- the possibility of doing home-based work, or work that you can fit around your kids.
This is something I'd seriously consider if I didn't have the great job that I have...
- living and working very close to the school.
This is essential to success for our family - we moved 10 minutes walk from my workplace, and our eldest is now in the local school, and if there's any sort of 'emergency' it is possible for her to walk to my office/employer and they don't mind at all. My middle child can travel home alone by public transport, and if he finds that there's no-one at home, or he forgot the key, and he forgets his mobile phone, or I can't 'rescue' him - he can walk to my workplace and the problem can be solved...
There is no way we could both hold down the jobs, with three kids (including one quite small and one who has a significant medical condition that needs 100% supervision if ill)....
- having a super-supportive employer (worth way more than their weight in gold!) - I love my job, I never would have agreed to take the job if the employer was not totally comfortable that I'm a parent of three kids!
- work for an employer that provides subsidised childcare. Either bundled with your salary, or in our case, our children attend school/childcare where we work.
I love to have paid work. If I didn't love my work, I would be staying home and raising three kids as a stay-at-home mum. If I was a stay-at-home mum I'd do what I did before moving to Switzerland - volunteer, sit on committees, babysit other people's kids...
I think there's also many layers to the childcare/work situation.
I also recognise that here in Switzerland the salaries are extremely high, and live-able on one income. The basic salary still gives a reasonable lifestyle, and a safety net. We could live very comfortably on one salary if our kids were in the local school. Well, by our standards anyway...
Can you still expan of the "taxable benefits" pls? Would like to learn about those.
K
I spent 8 years as a stay at home mum, for all sorts of good reasons, and have no regrets- but then I just needed to go back to study and later work- for my own sanity and as I felt my brain was turning to mush- and we all benefited from it in so many ways- OH and our girls were very proud the day I collected my Degree (with them of course) and each time I got promotion.
Yes, you have a great point. No one would ever dream of telling my hubby "What your children are in krippe full time?" rather they would say "What? Your wife WORKS?" I get the former and have to remind myself daily that it is my choice etc. Some former poster said that one challenge here is also the children themselves pressure you: "Why is so and so only 3 days at Krippe/Hort?" I believe this is quite unique to Ch system.
In any case, it is doable and do not relfect too much or you may never have children
I guess you missed the part where I suggested it is insulting to call us "lucky."
The tax subsidies for having here are significantly higher than in the US, where I come from. There, a dependent reduces your taxable income by $3800 (I think it's 7000 CHF here, but may be wrong) and the limit on day care deductions is $2000 (as opposed to 6000 CHF here). Day care costs in San Francisco (where I'm familiar with the system) or other major cities are comparable to the costs here. Our taxes have dropped significantly since having two children in Zurich, so I find the tax structure very favorable, but I suppose if you're making way more money than we are, maybe you won't see those as significant savings.
By the way, for Krippe costs, it's taxable income minus deductions for the household and the children (7000 for the household, 7000 for each adult, and 7000 for each child, so a household with 2 adults and two kids gets a deduction of 35,000 CHF from the taxable income). So you'd have to have a taxable income of 155,000 CHF in order not to get any subsidies.
I'm scarily disorganised and my head is all over the place most of the time but I've managed to sort childcare needs out in a fairly straightforward manner.
I truly apologize as honestly did not mean to offend you. I truly think you are lucky as I know many parents who are just off the mark and do nto get subsidies and it is a struggle. Maybe lucky is not the right word, more like I am glad you get help? Hope that explains it.
I think each of us pov depends what we are used to and where we come from. I am unhappy that my taxes as a married couple SUBSTANTIALLY increased versus being 2 single people, then yes, they decreased with the children but compared to what we pay for childcare, still much less.
I believe we should be allowed to deduct child care costs in full and not only partially. I also believe child care costs should not be so crippling for many.
I do agree it is only for some yrs but nevertheless those yrs are difficult.
And you are correct on the calculations, it was my misunderstanding. The online calculator can be found here:
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/ssd/de/...00.secure.html
K
You are right and I agree. I think one needs to build a 5 yr horizon cost to understand how it evolves. We did that and we knew that for about 2 yrs (time we were paying for 2 Krippe full time places) we would need to accept that we would pay a lot and then with time it gets better.
For me continuity of employemnt is key but depends on the job. For some jobs it is vital, others are easier to get into again so people may take different choices.
K
I am usually the "super organized-plan ahead" person but hoenstly, in this area I think you just need to work through the basics but then take the plunge
For me the basics were:
-Live in a place with lots of available childcare and then schools and easy to build a network to help each other with other families
-Live close to work or work from home to minimze loss of time with travel etc
(Above points mean we chose to live in the city - so higher rent costs but no car for example)
-Employer who accept need of flexibility when children are small (they get sick, have to attend doc visits, then comes accompanyng them to the forest, school plays etc) So you need at least one of you to be flex.
-Have a couple where both will chip in and do some of the heavy lifting
-Have a meaningful job/career which makes it "worth it"
Happy to chat more if you want, also via PM
Ciao
K
We cannot say how easy it is, in general, since it is different for different people, in fact as we see different for different cantons and communes. For example here we do not have subsidies from employers for child care at all. And commune only willingly offered a spot when they realized I am paying another commune to have my child in their care. A 3 year waiting list vanished. I can see some parent stuff being difficult to make work, the only advice I have is to make sure you have your partner on board with you, share the info on difficulties so they know.
I was never married here without children (shotgun wedding...), so we didn't see a tax increase (even though I went from Quellensteuer to tax at source, and I do know I paid less in taxes as a foreigner than I would have as a Swiss) but I do know that the marriage penalty is a problem.
I guess we also have a pretty frugal lifestyle, so aside from travel (which, let's face it, with two young kids is a nightmare anyway) we have had to cut back, but not to the point where I feel we are suffering. I would like to go back to the US to visit family, but I think we won't be able to afford another trip home until we reduce our Krippe costs, in two years.
I am a camps manager at a local Geneva school called College de Leman. If you would like any support during the holidays we offer a range of different camps such as ski and summer camps.
Thanks