Live quite comfortably with a family on 120k a year ..???
either your definition of quite comfortably differs significantly from mine, or I have been doing some rather strange things with my money..
surely you can't be serious...?
Zug is a pretty awesome place to live. Yes it does get foggy at times but it's not every day and it's rather pretty. Low taxes and it's extremely easy to get into Zürich or Luzern for a more wild night out. There's enough going on here with bars, restaurants, ice hockey, etc to keep you out of trouble. And for those late nights out, there's always the Why Not...
Phew, me too 120K, a wife and 2 kids comfortably... perhaps he's living in a tent.
It depends on many factors, such as your standard of living, the age and schooling requirements of your kids. Are you more of a city type or do you want to be out in nature?
Tax savings probably don't make a bif difference at your level of income so don't let the issue of taxes blind you to other factors.
Zürich has a relatively high level of cultural activities and there's always something of interest going on somewhere. Some neighbourhoods are also quite multicultural. On the other hand some parts of town are less child-friendly than others so take a good look around before committing.
I'd say not having to go to work every day is living quite comfortably We haven't worked full time in years. It's all about what you choose to spend your money on.
We used to earn a lot more, but had no time to spend it or enjoy it. A bigger house would mean more "stuff" to manage. Our kids have everything they need and i'm trying to get rid of the stuff we currently have and don't need
We spent our first three months in Zug (in corporate housing) and then beat it to Zurich. We found Zug extremely pretty but too sleepy for our tastes. Yes, the taxes are lower in Zug but if you're American you will end up paying the difference to Uncle Sam anyways so that shouldn't matter. We didn't consider moving to Thalwil or any of the other "commuting" towns between Zurich and Zug, as we wanted more urban options than they offered - i.e. stores open later than 6 pm, choice of gyms and services, close to airport and main train hubs etc. My spouse has no problem with the 30 minute commute to the Baar/Zug border - it's even shorter now that the new highway is open.
Zurich is a small, livable city (approx. 350k population) and there is suburban-type housing available in many neighborhoods - other than a couple of busy neighborhoods, it's mostly residential and safe for the kiddies. It's also more cosmopolitan than the smaller towns and I think you are less likely to feel isolated as a foreigner - Shwyz has a bad reputation for this but I have no first hand experience myself. Also, if you don't have a job when you get here, there is a professional women's group in town that you can join and, of course, many, many expat groups.
Feel free to pm me if you have any more questions.
Well, despite having to dodge the aforementioned slimey goo and duck out of the reach of hideous tentacles as I run my daily errands...
I love living in Schwyz.
I am not a city girl; although I love the Opera, Tonhalle, the museums and galleries, I couldn't breathe if I had to live in a city. For me, SZ is the best of both worlds.
Schwyz may not be the right option for you, if you are a city dweller at heart. But for the benefit of others who might be pondering similar choices:
I live in the Höfe area, just over the ZH border. My husband's drive into Zürich is about 30 minutes at silly o'clock in the mornings, about 40 minutes in the evenings. The train into the Zürich Hauptbahnhof is 45 minutes. The city and all it has to offer is only a pleasant train ride away, should one miss the bright lights.
I walk into our little village for most of my shopping, but have quick access to both Rapperswil and Einsiedeln for larger towns if I don't want to trek into the city.
Housing costs are still fairly reasonable where I live - many people here own rather than rent, so there is less pressure on the rental market - meaning you can get a larger home/flat and often a nice garden for what you'd pay for a shoebox in the city. While Wollerau (the diamond coast) is quite pricey, Feusisberg and Schindellegi are more affordable.
Low taxes are a big draw - I pay about half of what I paid in canton ZH. The savings are indeed huge. (However, if you are an American remember that you must file, and may owe, US taxes - but living in a low tax area gives us more leeway in making US tax planning decisions, something that was difficult for us when we lived in ZH.)
But the real reason I live here is quality of life - a private garden and quick access to good hiking trails are of primary importance to me. We have gorgeous views of the lake to one side, the mountains to the other - and peace, quiet and the occasional cowbell.
I walk - or snowshoe - out my door and up the Etzel or Rossberg everyday. In the immediate area you are spoiled for hiking choices both winter and summer. Cross country skiing is 10 minutes away, lots of downhill options in under half an hour.
And despite what many here on EF will tell you, in Ausserschwzy you'll find that cows - and down-to-earth friendly folk - still far outnumber hedge fund managers.
Hope you and your family enjoy your time in Switzerland, wherever you choose.
In Schwyz?
For anyone considering a move there, this is recommended reading.
As mentioned look at the train timetables, even if you lived in Zug or Zurich an hour would probably be your biggest commuting time.
Places in between to look at
Affoltern am albis (or anywhere on the S9 Zug side of Zurich)
Thalwil
Oberrieden Dorf / Horgen Oberdorf
Enge / Wiedikon
or as close to the main station in Zug/ Zurich
If you lived in Schweiz it would make the commute longer and one of you will probably end up driving.
Lachen is nice with good connections and the net they put up keeps the tentacled squibblies away. (Avoid Pfäffikon SZ, it has no net)
Train map is here
http://www.zvv.ch/export/sites/defau...s/SBahn_08.pdf
Be aware that the further you live out of the main cities the less likely you are to find a supermarket open past 6pm weekdays, or 4pm Saturday.
If you like Sunday shopping you need to be near the Airport or big main station. Coming from London the situation with shopping will be a shock.
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Switzerland has small cities, Zurich is smaller than most towns in the UK, but comes with the benefit of more public transport. Wimbledon and Zurich are comparable in my eyes, do not expect to see an area that resembles Hackney in Zurich.
Gardens and houses are expensive, where ever you decide to end up. 4000Chf would be an absolute minimum I would think. Try thinking about flats (where everyone else lives) they are not the same dirty word as they are in the UK. You may be able to get a 2 floor flat which will feel like a house.
Gardens are rarely private and are usually shared.
He will have no problem where ever you live. The mountains are on your doorstep.
You however sound like you might be unhappy. The Autumn here is foggy and unless you make the effort to get up a mountain and above the fog you may not see the sun for a long time.
Winter will last 5 months.
From reading your posts it sounds to me as if you don't have a very clear idea about Switzerland.
I would recommend a weekend over here before you make a decision.
My overall generalisation would be: If you like the outdoors and want to do things in the countryside, you will love Switzerland
If you like to drink coffee, have lunch and shop, then you will hate it.
Also I don't have kids so I am not sure, but I think kids start school at 7 here.
Sure someone else will know better.
What I do know is that when they start they seem to spend most of the day at home.
In Zug they can start Kindergarten the year they turn 4, but it is only from 8am-12noon. School from age 6 or 7 finishes by 3, but the kids are home for lunch from 12-1:30 and Wednesday afternoons off. So yes - they do spend a lot of time at home.
My wife and I have lived in ZH (she's from ZH anyway, i'm English) for the last few years now, first in Kreis 7, and now in Kreis 5 - which is the industrial quarter and so has the urban thing going on. It's an area you may want to check out.
10 minutes to ZH City via tram, 15 to the airport via train and 20 to work by tram (I work in Uetlihof).
However we're also now considering a move, and have pondered the same question as you are now.
I love Zug, it's nice and small but very international and has enough going on, however train connections back into ZH where we both work, plus the limited availability of rented housing in the nicer areas, made us reconsider.
We also checked out Thalwil, and spent the other afternoon the other day looking at potential places, however we were somewhat dissapointed at what we found (as I believe someone mentioned alreasy.) A 4.5 room place is above 3k and the offering are slim and not the best by a long stretch; older places located away from the main shops etc.
The problem is that we're living in a newly built place in the city of ZH and therefore used to the convenience of the materials, insulation and also the small things like having a washer/tumbler in the apartement, so we left Thalwil and the search continued.
I can feel a bit of a negative vibe in this thread on Kanton Schwyz, and we did look at a new development in Lachen, which wasn't that great (and felt like the end of the world) however after checking out some places in Pfäffikon today, i've got to say that what you get for the money there is really quite decent; modern, smart and well located.
Plus Pfäffikon isn't really a village - has a large shopping centre and so is like a small city. Plus the connections via road and train to ZH are very good make it attractive. Plus not to mention compared to ZH I'll save around 40% in taxes!
That's another thing to consider - how often the train goes to ZH, here I believe it's 4 times an hour, with travel times similar to Zug.
So there's my 2 cents worth, and a thumbs up for Schwyz.
Hope it helps.
I have lived in Zug for three years and love it.
I find Zurich is ok for a few hours, but for an ex-Londoner, a bit anaemic for a major city. From time to time I write how I feel about Zug and Switzerland ( http://fabooks.wordpress.com/ ).
There are many worries in these discussions about 'how much is going on', but I suspect being inside a bar in Zug is much the same as being inside a bar in Zurich and most people's lives seem to be built around social networks, derived from common language, work, school and kids. I doubt if many places are so quiet that you couldn't build a busy social life from these basics....
I live in Zurich but work in Pfaffikon Sz.
My wife is Swiss and to her, quality of life is very important, which is the main reason why we dont live in Pfaffikon. Pfaffikon is a tax haven, mainly inhabited by foreigners or Swiss tax exiles. Granted, it is only 25 mins from Zurich but it is another world, culturally and my understanding from friends who live there, it is not an ideal place to live with your wife/girlfriend if she is going to be left at home looking after the children.
A colleague of mine who moved to Wollerau for fiscal reasons is going through a particularly rough time with his wife as she is deeeply unhappy here. Moreover, I know a couple of people who have seperated over the fiscal/location issue.
As for Zug, I cannot comment too much as I do not know the town very well having only been there on several occassions.
Zurich is great, taxes may be relatively higher, but quality of life is great.
I hear you there Conor, however we considered that too, and as most of our friends are already outside of the city (Uster for example) we're still close enough to visit them so moving from the city wouldn't be a disadvantage in that sense.
Just means we'd have to re-discover the new spot (leaving all our favourite restaurants behind in ZH) and also re-establish our local social network.
Still we're currently checking out a few places, and it's not all decided yet anyway