12 yrs too late to start in bilingual school?

Family, Education, Health and Pets
1
Hi all - apologies if you feel this is the millionth time you've seen this question, but I have done some searching on this topic and most threads refer to much younger kids in the primary system, or in other areas/schools (e.g. Basel).

We are moving from London to Zurich in the summer for the long-term (5+ years) and I have the option to put my 11 year old son into an international or bilingual school - or potentially the local Swiss school (if they'll have him).

He will be 12 in June . He's bilingual - Russian and English (Russian mum) and also has been learning Spanish so he's pretty good at languages. No German, but has just started classes.

We are really keen to make a go of our move and integrate as much as possible, so I'd like to check we aren't missing out on a great opportunity by taking route 1 to international school.

Starting in August, our plan is to try the SIS Zurich (Maennedorf) bilingual school, enrolling our son in the last year of the primary cycle (grade 6?).

Hopefully he will be able to progress up to the next level with his class the following year. We thought that would be enough to understand if he can manage it or not. If not, he can go to an international school. At least we tried and he will have learned some German in the meantime.

Any thoughts on this or experiences to share?

Would a local Swiss school be out of the question?

I have only spoken to SIS Zurich so far but I liked their honest stance on it - guardedly positive about his chances of coping and integrating, saying it would depend mainly on him but they would support him and that they had seen other kids enter at the same age and do well. We will visit in late March.

Would be great to hear about other bilingual schools in the Zurich area or Swiss schools that run bilingual programmes.

Thank you!

2
Personally I would put your son into a Swiss normal school, and arrange for extra tuition in German. If it doesn't work out you can always reconsider the options.

The big advantage with the state school is that all his class friends will live near him and he will have a good social life. If you have to take him across town to a special school he won't meet them easily after school or at weekends.

Often the new foreign children will be started off in a class one year younger than their own age group, but this doesn't have to be the case, sometimes schools are extremely cautious. Foreign children are sometimes a long way ahead of Swiss children, you need to be clear on the syllabus and check if he is up to it. There is often a big jump in Swiss education between the ages of 11 and 12, and Swiss children do have trouble managing the change from easy going primary school, to hard studying secondary education.

3
I also think you should give local school a try, especially since you are looking at a long term stay. In local school he will likely be given intensive German classes at the beginning. He should be able to communicate with most teachers in English at first and even with the kids, as his classmates would have already studied a bit of English. He will be a year behind in French, but his Spanish should help him there.

We moved here when my son was 12 and he is now fluent in German and Swiss German after two years. It WAS a struggle, especially in the first 6 months, but he has made friends and is happy. We put him in year 6 when we arrived, which he had already done in Canada, so he was repeating a year, but this really gave him time to learn German. He was not behind in Math, although a few things were different, so he was ahead in some areas, not ahead in others.

4
Just a note of warning about putting him into English speaking International School if the German language schooling doesn't work out. The International schools here are quite popular and often over subscribed with a waiting list. So it may not be as simple as take him out of one school and pop him in another.

5
+1

Our kids arrived from Sydney at a similar age to your son last June, and there were other new arrivals of similar age in their "integration class". Four terms into the experience (out of five terms in a year) the local (Stadt Zurich) school has worked out very well, and I'm glad we decided to brave it.

On the other hand, we're alert to the possibility that we may need to switch them to bilingual / international later. If your employer is paying school fees, I'd make sure that any decision to go local in the first year or few does not close off the option to go bilingual / international in later years, should you choose.

6
Thanks to everyone for your responses - very interesting! I expect the Swiss local school will be a challenge but might work out in the end.

We will come over in late March and make some visits to different schools - state and bilingual - and see how he feels about it.

Any particular schools you can recommend that are good at doing this or where you've seen others welcomed and helped to integrate?

Thanks for advice re fees and contract - will keep that in mind.

7
In case of public schools you can't chose. Instead you'll be assigned one, usually the one closest to your new home.

So if you have a particular school in mind you may be able to influence the assignemnt by the particular location you move to, but there are no guarantees.

8
My son was 11 when he arrived in Zurich last year. We are Canadians. We had a one-hour interview with the teacher for an assessment. He was placed in an integration class with about 6 other newbies (ranging from 10 to 13 years old) at a local public school. Work is customized for each child according to their learning pace. No English spoken at all. Because this integration school (Lavater Schule near Bahnhof Inge) is not within walking distance from home, he was given a bus pass (10mins bus ride). Lunch and Hort (after-school care) is compulsory. School (including text books) is free, but you have to pay for lunch and Hort.

We now live in Oberwil, Zug and he attends a local public school a few minutes walk away. He's no longer in any integration class (or special school), but has extra German lessons with his teacher. Incidentally, his teacher just called to say that because he has progressed so much, he doesn't need any additional German lessons going forward. I do have to say that he has been speaking German with his grandparents since birth.

Different cantons have different schooling policies. It is very important to choose where you live. If you are planning on public school, your child will be assigned to the school closest to your home.

Good luck, and welcome to Switzerland. This forum is awesome with lots of wonderful people.

9
JollyHappyGal - thanks for that specific info, even though I think it makes a big difference your son has spoken German since birth, it's still encouraging that local schools have a structured approach to integration and supporting non-German speakers midway through the school cycle!

10
Really depends on the child and how willing you are to learn German.

In our family, it would have been fine to go in at 12 with my oldest but very problematic for our middle child. If your son is outgoing, good at language and communication and fairly level-headed with challenges, why not give it a go. But I would hesitate with a child who finds communication a struggle. You have to be realistic because not only does a 12 year-old have to cope with some serious puberty-related issues, but Switzerland streams kids at this age and it will be quite a mountain to climb for anyone who generally struggles academically. Blind faith isn't really appropriate here.

It also depends on how willing you are to learn German -- and I don't mean chit-chat German. You have to make a serious commitment yourself.

11
Thanks for that - yes I'm aware of the risk and the additional complicating factors of both puberty and acclimatising to all the other stuff going on that's part of a move like this. I have pretty ok German left over from school and having worked there for two summers in my youth so I am working on that too myself.

12
Hi Solka,

What did you choose in the end? How does your kid feel after 1 year in Switzerland ?

I'm moving soon to ZH and trying to decide if it's worth to pay for bilingual school for my 9yo or if I should go straight into the public system.

Thanks in advance

13
If you are planning a long term stay, I would not spend the money on bilingual school. Our kids are now 3 years in and doing great. Our son will start an apprenticeship in August, which he is very excited about.

14
Hi Solka and Pilieich, I'm also wondering how everything worked out and curious to hear other similar stories about what families ended up doing with children starting secondary school. My daughter will be 12, starting grade 7 when we move this summer. She has basic German skills, since we are moving from Berlin, where she has been in international school since grade 2. We've already been given a place at ZIS, but not sure if we should go the local route instead. My concern is the local route will be too disruptive, considering all the changes as they move on after grade 8, then again after grade 10, and the apprenticeship process is completely foreign to me as an American. I can't imagine a 17-year-old, or younger already knowing what area they want to go into. Would love to hear your stories. Thanks so much.

15
The end of obligatory schooling in Switzerland is year 9. After year 9 there is a 'sorting process' and students are steamed into different directions based on their academic scores.

If students want to do an apprenticeship this often gets decided early. My own son was 15 years old when he finished year 9 and went on to do a 4 year Berufsmatura with the KV. He had the grades to go to gymnasium but was fed up with the ethos in school. He was way happier in industry. But he was born here and his dad is Swiss. It's possible but tricky once a kid gets to year 7 to enter the local system because the academic demands are high.

16
Is your son an academic as they say? Does he get good grades at school? And to be clear here I don't mean an average student, I mean an A most of the time, sometimes B.

If this is the case then my vote goes to private; don't get me wrong the Swiss system is excellent; indeed better than private in some ways. But in the Swiss system they stream you at 11. And if we're all brutally honest even the bloody math classes here are French/German tests half the time.

With limited German/French even if he goes back a year it seems likely he will be streamed into the terminal classes as they call them in France. Terminal as in you have few options for further learning beyond the age of 15/16.

Sure you got technical schools as they say, but I am talking about a degree from a Swiss University.

Now look ahead to the next 5 years. If you son wants to get a job with a big international company like Nestle, Roche, JPMorgan, any industry etc. he won't get a foot in the door without a degree. They all use automated platforms to scan applications, so it isn^t a person who makes this decision, it a computer. No degree, no interview, no chance.

On a completely different note, I don't know how his Russian roots are being viewed right now, but I suggest you tell him to keep them secret when he comes over here.

More so in public schools if you take that route. He is almost certainly going to find himself face-to-face with Ukraine kids who may have lost a father to Putins war. I just googled it [April 2020] and there are 20K Ukraine refugees registered in Switzerland. A good number of those, perhaps more than half will be kids, in public schools, in fast track language classes. Kids who may speak Russian and won't like Russians.

I am sure most Russians would be as horrified as most Europeans are about this war if they knew the truth, but kids are mean and most of them most lightly don't understand that. Your son if he is perceived as Russian will be a target, more so in public schools than private ones where there will far fewer if any Ukraine refugee kids.

17
The great thing about the apprenticeship system is that it doesn't lock you into a profession. I know one young man who did a finance apprenticeship at Roche, and is now a social worker. Children can try out a profession. If it doesn't suit, they can try something else. But all the time they are learning useful skills.

My daughter, after her apprenticeship as a Pharmaceutical Technician, is now studying for a Bachelors in Pharmaceutical Engineering. She finds that due to her earlier training, she's far more competent in much of the lab work.

@markalex - you're answering a post from years ago. You should check celesteinzurich's post.

This does happen. It's stupid, in my opinion. However, my son was 11 when he came here, and on the strength of his mathematics was put into the top stream. It was tremendously hard work, but he ended up with a Masters in Theoretical Physics.

This isn't true. If you do an apprenticeship at any of these companies, it gives you a big boost if you want to work for them later. Some apprentices go straight into a full time permanent position with their company.

18
I decided what to study, and which university I would attend to do so, at age 11.

Tom

19
I agree with everything in NAT's post, there is just one more thing I would like to point out.

I wouldn't recommend going the apprenticeship route if you are planning to leave switzerland in the next 8-10 years (before she is 20). Within the swiss system, pursuing a academic career after an apprenticeship is easy (given that your daughter is cut out for it), but if you leave switzerland before doing Berufsmatura/Passarelle, she will have trouble getting acces to an University outside Switzerland. In addition to that, she will most likely lack skills in maths.