4X4's Winter Tyres & Chains

Transportation, Travel and Trips
1
I have a BMW 330ix which can have winter tyres in either 205 50 R 17 93 Q M+S or 225 45 R 17 91 Q M+S

The Handbook states that chains can't be used with 225 45 R 17, the winter tyres I have are this size 2 of the 4 are in good condition.

Do the police ever insist that 4x4's use chains on mountain roads, I spend at least 15 weekends in the mountains often arriving late at night, so being prevented from completing the journey would be a pain.

Thanks in advance for any info.

2
This is one of those "legal vs practical" questions.

What BMW is saying is that there is not enough room between the tire and the wheel well so the chains will damage the car. And obviously you want to keep the current tires since they are in ok condition.

OFFICIALLY, when you see the chains sign, you are required ( even with 4x4 - and yes, I checked a few different websites) to put on the chains.

PRACTICALLY, the police normally will let you pass and will not fine you if you have a 4x4 and good winter tires.

Here is the sign as a reminder to those who do not see it very often, or at all.

And for completeness, here is the sign for when chains are no longer required.

3
What would your insurance company do though if you did have an accident on such a road in your 4x4 - and you didn't have snow chains?

There must be someone here who's done that?

4
In the Canton of Graubünden I have never seen the chains mandatory sign without 4x4 exemption in the last 20 years.

Don't know about other cantons, sorry.

5
If it's a clearance issue, why not go with a set of cable chains? As far as the legal vs. practical question, one of those fifteen nights is bound to be bad enough (police or not) to demand a set of chains to get you where you're heading. In the last three seasons I've used (proper) chains half a dozen times on the Audi, probably could have gotten by without two or three of those, but the other times... no way José.

6
I don't believe chains will reduce the risk of an accident, just the risk of getting stuck. Unless the snow is very deep you have less breaking ability with chains, virtually none when you cross a patch of road which is almost clear of snow, same story on a hair pin bend!

I also pay an additional premium to cover gross negligence, so it does not really matter what the insurance would say.

I did buy some chains & they probably would fit the front wheels OK if I came across a difficult policeman. The only place I have had to put them on is going unto Verbier late at night, so I should probably go & ask at the police station in Martigny.

I have only ever put chains on on a rear wheel drive BMW (LSD) when the police insisted, I have always been able to manage without with good winter tyres.

7
I found this . . .

http://www.20min.ch/winterspecial/news/story/21622068

and this . . .

http://www.tcs.ch/de/test-sicherheit...hneeketten.php

in German, I'm afraid.

If 2 of the tyres are anyway not in good condition, can you replace these with the narrower tyres and then mount the chains on these ? You need only chains on say the front wheels if these are drive wheels.

8
I don't think you should have different sized wheels front & back, the rims are also slightly width & different style so probably a bad idea.

9
FMF - I tried to buy chains for my 530XD from BMW - and they told me (paraphrasing) "to bugger off"

They are rather confident that for on road winter driving you'll never need chains. And so far, after 3 winters, using x-Drive I never have done. The 530XD wasn't as grippy as the Alpina - but that is more down to the Blizzaks (as opposed to Sottozeros) then the system. Coming down from Amden in very bad conditions - switched on the HDC and everything was fine.

If you get the chance over winter find a snow/icy car park - leave DSC on - put it in first gear - full lock - and gun it - and experience what happens when you really provoke the electronics. It will not perform proper donuts - constantly trying to correct itself. Then switch DSC off - and spend 20 minutes driving like Loeb.

(Engelberg has nice big car parks for such activities - apparently )

(530xd = 225/45R17 all round. Alpina = 245/35R19 all round)

10
Yes, happened to me once. The police would not allow anyone to leave the parking area and drive down the mountain without chains, 4x4 or not.

11
Looks like I better buy 4 tyres then, thanks for the info.

12
Chains will stop you sliding on icy tracks but in the same conditions, winter tyres could prove useless.

13
For the last 15 years I've driven AWD cars (Audis and Volvos) in winter, frequently going back and forth between the Engadine and the Zurich area. Never owned chains. Never missed them.

(Of course that's no help if you need to drive where they don't allow 4x4 exemptions...)

Unfortunately the safety freaks at Volvo don't let you turn it off completely.

Maybe I need to switch back to Audi (or BMW).

Care to tell us where that happened? Thanks.

14
Concur.

What is impressive though is switching on HDC (Hill Descent Control) even on surfaces you would not think it possible to drive down - it will hold the pre-set speed (16kmh for example). I suspect it tortures the brakes and uses a great deal of engine braking - along with all the electronics.

Ultimately there are conditions in which driving - no matter what the vehicle - ceases to be a good idea - x-Drive and Winter tyres has covered all the driving I have had to do.

15
My 1999 Volvo V70XC was also disallowed from using chains, but at the time (and in the UK) I hadn't discovered winter tyres so I thought they were kind of a good idea for ski trips, so I ended up getting a set of the type that mount on the hub and don't have any parts on the inside of the wheel, as that was where the clearance was an issue

Likewise. I've never used chains on any of the 4wd cars we've had since we've been here.

I definitely second this too, understanding just how much the DSC/ESP is doing in icy conditions is important, as it's only then that you'll realise when you're pushing it a little too much.

Allegedly.

16
Maybe I just wasted some money as I bought 4 x Uniroyal MS PLUS 77 205/50 R17 93V XL to go with the chains I bought in Carrefour for 14.50 Euro at the end of last season.

I think I know that car park, it's rather empty pre season however they still charge you 5 CHF a day.

17
If your tyres have "M+S" (all season) together with an icon of a snowflake on, you're ok (provided of course that the tread depth is still acceptable).

Toyota Land Cruiser, ever since I gave up on BMW for winter driving in the 1990s. once I "had" to get back to Zuri from Zermatt for a meeting.

heavy snow & avalanches closed (or rather were going to close the road - I arrived minutes before the authorities) at Herbriggen. nipped through nicely with all season tyres and basic Toyota 4WD

18
Quite cheap for a skidpan session/track day, though.

But don't do it at night when I'm trying to sleep otherwise I _will_ call the cops on you

19
I prefer the car parks in France which are generally free

20
Well to be exact it was not Switzerland but Lech/Zurs in Austria. Really annoying as half the decent is through partly covered tunnels which have no snow in them so bad for your tyres with chains on. I had an Audi Quattro with winter tyres fitted but absolutely no one was allowed down without chains. What happened to the people who were not allowed to leave, I've no idea. Perhaps they just waited until the police had gone.

The chances of the police doing this must be small as it was the only time it has happened in perhaps 1000 trips into the mountains during winter. That was the only time I've used chains on a 4WD but carry them in the car in any case.