A would-be (male) teacher in Switzerland from the USA (Colorado/Washington)

Welcome and Introductions
1
Hi,

I have eyed Switzerland for a long time as a place I might eventually want to settle. My personal passion is working with children, and I have found myself frustrated by what I see as the poor quality of primary school education programs in the USA. I am very envious of the high salaries of school teachers in Switzerland, and believe I have enough stamina to probably not burn out as quickly as it is said that folks tend to in that field.

A tentative plan is to come first of all for a year to improve my German skills (especially writing). Later, I would formally apply to a teacher education program at one of the Fachhochschulen for those who are steering themselves toward that trade.

I really admire what I've heard whenever teutophonic pedagogs talk about the systems around children's lives. It's a very deep anthropological approach. Who knows? As a native English speaker I may end up finding it easier to teach at an international school... but I want my credentials to be from a German or Swiss school, I think.

My thought is that the Universities of Basel or Bern would be good places to study German and get myself up from a B1/2 level to a solid C. As I understand it, it's cheaper to live in those cities than in a place like Zürich.

One vague impression I'm getting as I pore over the visa applications and other information from Swiss websites is that personal contacts in the country are very important for visitors and new immigrants. That seems to be the context around which all the visa policies make sense. Without that personal bubble of friends and acquaintances, it might be quite difficult as a "free mover" student.

BTW...

I'd love to do a nanny job, if anyone can point me in the right direction.... however, I'm too old (43, with a very young personality) to qualify for an au pair visa, so the family would need to file paperwork for a non-EU work visa. That might be too much work.

2
Personal contacts notwithstanding, it is incredibly hard to get a permit to stay and work in Switzerland if you are not Swiss, married to a Swiss or from an EU country (or married to someone from an EU country).

Teachers normally need to be fluent in one of the Swiss languages or, if you teach in an international school, you would need to be from one of the EU countries (as stated above). Very occasionally you can get a job here if you have a skill that is hard to find elsewhere in Europe but teaching in international schools is one of those professions here which is already over-subscribed.

3
Do you already have a teaching qualification and experience from the USA ?

Studying tertiary level in a language that is not your own, especially in a field that has a lot of technical language, and then teaching in that non-native language, is a big stretch.

4
You won't like what I have to say here... sorry.

In primary schools, both parents and administration want mother tongue speakers. You are not, forget it. Finding a teaching job for Germans is already hard enough especially in primary schools, imagine for an American with German as second language!!

International schools are independent, including for salaries, they pay whatever they want.

5
To Swisspea:

I have a lot of informal experience and work experience with kids - along with plenty of hours of classes and practicum with in both ECE and primary teacher ed programs in the USA - but no, I don't have any certificates or degrees.

I understand that studying at a tertiary level in a foreign language is hard. I was an exchange student in Berlin in high school and I became quite disillusioned - because it just seemed impossible to achieve the kind of standards I had been keeping myself to in my American high school.

However, I have a better handle on the language now, and wouldn't even think to enter an academic program before having enough remedial teaching to where I can write decent essays and get myself somewhere into the C language level. Electronic dictionaries and internet sites like leo.org also help. Back in high school, all I had was a ragged paperback dictionary - and that caused even history reading assignments to take an hour or two, when a native reader might take ten or fifteen minutes.

My sense is that the Swiss use a vocabulary and a word order that is somewhat more similar to the flow of English than the German dialect is. It could be because English and Swiss German have both been so greatly affected by the French language. It also could be, because the Swiss are a bit more laidback. The one hurdle, of course, will be the characteristic Swiss mountain accent and idioms.

Yes, I agree with you that actually being a generalist, and teaching children in all the areas that a primary school teacher deals with, is quite a tall ask for a foreigner. In reality, it's probably easier to go into math or engineering or some kind of hard science as a person who is adopting himself into a new country and a new language. There is lots of time to change course, if I want to, though.

To Sandgrounder:

Thanks for the quick response! Also thanks for the heads up regarding the fact that international schools are not hiring as much; I suppose that layout of supply and demand is to be expected. I am single, so there is the possibility of stumbling upon someone I want to marry in Switzerland, I suppose... I haven't had much luck here in the USA.

Do you know exactly how much paperwork an employer has to actually file, in order to hire a non EU/Efta national? It sounds like it's quite a burden on their time.

As I mentioned, my tentative plan would be to get a student visa, and spend a year doing language classes first.

6
translucentarc,

Forget everything you think you know about German and Swiss German. A teacher must be able to correct the parents' language mistakes, otherwise, it's just not good enough. Children are there to learn the real thing. You don't want me to teach your children English either...

The teaching degree in itself is a piece of cake if you really really really really master highGerman like a German/Swiss. I did mine twice, once in a foreign language and once in one of my own languages. The issue is finding a job afterwards: What counts is what you are , not only what you can (in the eventuality that you end up mastering German like a German/Swiss, which I don't believe one second, nothing personal though). If they don't hire you, nobody will ever know what you can.

Between us: you don't want to face Swiss parents in primary school if you are not native speaker. They'll make your life hell. Don't tell anybody I told you.

7
To Faltrad:

(This was written before you edited your post, so I may not address your concerns as well as you'd like me to.)

Thanks for being earnestly candid with me about that

I have figured that might be a problem... and if so, I'd probably be made aware of that pretty quickly, the moment I enter a Pädagogischen Hochschule and spend some time under the tutelage of the teachers with the other students.

I figure:

a) I have a small advantage, in that I'm male... and I speak an important lingua franca.

b) I honestly wouldn't mind eventually working in a daycare rather than a primary school. Swiss wages there are also really generous compared to similar positions here in the USA.

c) There's apparently a huge unfilled gap in the Swiss teacher labor force, and if a foreigner actually gets credentials from a Swiss institution, he might have a fighting chance.

d) If it doesn't work out, at all - oh well. As I have mentioned, I really do want a Swiss or German pedagogical education anyway rather than a strictly American one. I might opt to complete my program in Germany instead, if it becomes evident - as you say - that Swiss schools never hire immigrants as teachers. I see that the Germans have a fairly easy path to permanent residency for those who find a job in their field after graduation.

I have been surprised that many Swiss Pädagogischen Hochschulen have English language versions of their websites... and that seems to me to be something of an encouraging sign that they are wanting to cast their net widely for applicants.

I'd actually love to hear more about that, if it's not too much trouble. I have discovered that where people experience frustration and have criticism for their society and their institutions, there can be lot to learn for me.

It's really great to have feedback from you, as a person who has been through the Swiss teacher training program, yourself. It's interesting to hear about the ethic that Swiss parents absolutely want a native speaker for their children to learn from. It's also fascinating to hear you say that correcting the grammar of parents is part of the job. Swiss German must be a language which is in flux in quite an exciting way, if that's the case.

8
Regarding salary: don't be fooled by the high figures. Although the gross amount sounds a lot, after paying tax, complusory insurances, rent and high food costs, I am left with much less saving power as a teacher, than I was able to save in several other countries I have taught in.

From what others have sritten, it sonds as if you wil not find it easy to get a teaching position within a local school. However, opportubnities DO come up within the International schools. My suggestion, if your heart is set on Switzerland, would be for you to get qualified in your home country, do the basic teaching years ( expect a minimum of two) to build up your skill level and be acceptable for reputable international schools anywhere, then be on the lookout for job vacancies within the Swiss-based International schools. Of course, in the meantime, you may find that you fall in love with other countries and decide not to come here at all. :-D Best of luck.

9
Thanks for your words of warning, Biff!

If I may ask, where else have you taught?

10
I went through the German and Skandinavian teaching education, but that's another story. Sorry again, but I won't tell you the horrors parents are capable of, you just need to know they are. In any country (It doesn't mean parents can't also be able of great support and help in coordinating education). And I am not saying that correcting parents is part of the job, it was a way of speaking: your language skills must be at least as good and theirs when you are local, and better than theirs when you are a foreigner... it's called credibility.

Daycare is a totally different case, there, you have your chances and English can be an asset (kind of "niche" market). As long as your German is excellent, that could work.

The issue in primary school is not the diploma on paper but your actual language profile. Take my word for it. You'd have to do the whole post-high-school education in Swiss university anyway, that's years of study time, you need a lot of money for that. Don't count on extra jobs.

11
Indeed: count up to 5 years, excellence in German language not included and no job guarantee at the end of your studies.

12
If you are considering working in a daycare you must be aware that the salaries are generally much lower than in schools. I don't know what pay is like in the state krippes but the bilingual ones which I looked at/ worked at certainly did not pay anywhere near as much as the international schools (and they pay less than the state schools).

However daycares may be interested in you on the basis of your previous experience whereas you need a teaching qualification and experience for schools.

Add to that the difficulty of getting a work permit as previously mentioned and it is going to be an uphill battle for you.

13

Here’s the info on what any employer has to do to be able to hire a non-EU national:

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/…zulassung.html

Also, and don’t take this the wrong way, I’m not sure how hireable you’re going to be after you finish all your studies. You say you’re 43 now and if it takes another 5-6 years then you’re coming up on 50. I don’t know what age preferences are for teachers here, someone else on the forum may know. Job adverts here can specify the age range they’re looking for, unlike in the UK where it’s illegal.

And are you going to have enough funds to support yourself for that long a time? Students are only allowed to work part-time so you’re not likely to make a living wage while you’re here. You have to prove to the authorities that you can support yourself financially and that will mean providing bank statements, etc.

Also, I assume you’re American, so what pension provisions have you made? Be aware that as a US citizen you are required to file and possibly pay US tax every year no matter where you live in the world. As a result of the US’s incoming FATCA law, Swiss banks aren’t keen on having Americans as clients so getting/keeping a bank account isn’t easy at the moment and could get worse. Also you need to investigate how Swiss and US tax law in general would affect you both salary and pension wise.

14
Good luck with improving your German and finding a position here

15
A bit off topic but this thread got me wondering...... Under Harmos, and the introduction of English at 5e ( 7e Harmos ) will this increase the demand for English teachers??

I heard anecdotally that the introduction date for this was shifted to August 2015 rather than August 2013 in Vaud due to a lack of qualified English teachers.

Though I guess it would be far from easy to get UK or USA teacher qualifications recognised to be able to apply for positions in 2y education in Switzerland.

I think it is better for languages to be taught by native speaker. In by VERY limited language learning & very poor French, I am sure the German my kids are learning ( in local school) is sounding very French !! It sounds most odd that my native English speakers are learning German with a pronounced French/Swiss accent & pronunciation. Rather like a twisted episode of 'allo'allo

16
I didn't spot that! Being over 40 without teaching experience just qualified makes it impossible to find a school. Experience is hugely important in teaching, and there is very very little turn over in schools in general. Add to it that teacher shortage is hugely exaggerated by the media and urban mythology.

Remember:

- being male will not be seen as an advantage even if there was a school with no male teacher at all.

- no experience means to be the last on the recruitment list

- any language limitation means to be the last on the recruitment list

- foreign qualifications means to be the last on the recruitment list

- English mother tongue is not an advantage for anything (even if it objectively should be in some cases) don't count on it.

Do you start getting the message here for Swiss public education? Sorry for that...

I challenge that big time. You are in no position to judge that.

17
I'll send you a PM :-)

18
I challenge that big time. You are in no position to judge that.[/QUOTE]

I readily admit to my lack of professional expertise but my Swiss German friends living here in Swiss Romand have lamented upon the standard of German being taught in the school, especially as it is one of the national languages.

I just wondered if the school system could perhaps become more accessible to foreign qualified teaching professionals due to the increased demand across the whole of Switzerland for English teachers.

19
Largely I agree with you but I know in England (I know England isn't Switzerland) they started trying to recruit "older" people (30s plus) to become qualified as teachers. The husband of one of my friends was one such person.

The reason behind it was to draw on the previous experience of teachers having a background outside of the world of school and academia, so bringing a different and/or richer range of skills alongside the subjects they are trained to teach.

My friend's husband, who is in now his mid 40s and has been teaching for the past 3 years, had been a mental health professional in his past life so I guess that stands him in good stead for a class full of moody teenagers.

In principle I think this is a good idea - in the normal course of events teachers go through the school system themselves as a child, out to uni, then into teacher training then back into the school system as teachers. I think a bit of "real world" experience can only be a benefit.

20
Leaving the possibilities/difficulties of teaching aside as it has already been covered by the teaching experts on this thread...

You should also be fully warned of the difficulties, as pointed out by Medea, of even coming here and studying and possibly thinking of staying to find work thereafter. Being non-CH, non-EU as I understand, your possibilites of staying here in the country beyond 3 months as a tourist are slim. Yes, there are some language schools, but getting a permit to do this as a 43-year old student will definitely raise some eyebrows in Bern when considering giving a permit or not. Then if you intend to stay on after that for several years of schooling, this may or not be possible, permit wise. The Swiss are increasing skeptical on this permanent student situation, and more and more require you to sign documents stating you will leave the country upon completion of your studies. And unless you have very deep pockets showing you can support yourself for x years of studying, very difficult. Not to mention that they require proof of such monies are available, even more difficult with the even more limited banking possibilites for Americans.