Advice on owning a dog

Hi,

I would value the input - especially of dog owners - on this one:

I was brought up on a farm and always had a dog (and several cats).

Now I live here. Own a house and am settled. Reasonable garden. Live in small rural village with plenty of space.

Here's the issue: my 10 year old daughter would love a dog, has for a few years now. I think she craves closer relationships with animals, and aspires to be a VET, or other animal related career, when she grows up.

Part of me really wants to get her a dog. Okay, its more effort for all of us - but may well contribute to a better quality of life for all too. The increased walks and mini family outings, as well as the increased exercise and random meeting new people that results in owning a dog.

On the other hand, we have always been travellers - for example, we are thinking of spending next Xmas in Thailand (although, after inter-country moves every few years for the last 11 years we now intend to stay in Switz for the foreseeable future. So, the big burden in owning a dog is the fact that it can really tie you down in terms of travelling.

Also, my wife is concerned that a dog would mean a smelly house (and garden): she sees a dog as an outdoor pet.

What I would ,like to know (esp. from dog owners) is, therefore:

(i) Is it such a burden travelling (in Europe, at least) with a dog?

(ii) Can a dog be kept in an outdoor kennel happily in Switz, even in winter?

(iii) Is keeping a (fairly small) dog a major expense?

(iv) Have I missed any other important considerations?

(v) Would you, on balance, recommend it?

Final points: My daughter goes to a local school, 2 minutes walk from house and would be able to walk the dog at lunch times and straight after school (3.20). My wife and I both work full time (8-4.30).

I do understand that taking on a dog is a big (and permanent) commitment - hence this post for advice.

Any comments and advice would be much appreciated.

Excellent post, and an important question. Good to see that you're going into this (possibly) with eyes wide open.

i) Are you thinking of taking Fido with you? If so, you'd encounter difficulties finding dog-friendly accommodation and of course you'd need to travel by car (unless you can stump up a lot of cash) and pray that Rover doesn't get car sick. There are resources out there on the interwebs to point you toward pet-friendly hostelries. However, I'd be inclined to leave Tiddles at home with a sitter (you'll be meeting lots of dog-minded people, after all), or in boarding kennels (not exactly cheap). Alternatively, you would probably find someone to look after Rex by advertising on EF.

ii) I wouldn't, although it really depends on the breed. If Fluffy is small enough, why not consider a dogflap so s/he can trot in and out?

iii) Compared to a car? No. Compared to raising another child? No. Compared to a goldfish? Yes, although a dog offers unconditional love to make up for the extra chuffs. Yes, there's a noticeable expense attached, but did you consider the economic impact before bringing your daughter into your home? You won't miss the extra cash.

iv) Think of all the pros -- in particular the unconditional love bit. And is your home set up for a dog -- do you have a fenced yard? It's important that you get your daughter to contract (virtually) to look after Killer -- maybe to feed him/her x times per week minimum, or to walk her/him at least once per day (sharing the load with Mum and Dad). Don't try to lump everying on her, though, and do make sure your wife has a say in the decision-making processes. It sounds like she's somewhat uncertain and needs buy-in. And finally, remember that this is potentially a very long term commitment (your daughter may be long finished university and opening her own veterinary practice before your dog reaches OAP status).

v) Yes, absolutely, given your stated background and your daughter's interest in animals. That's half the battle won already.

Go forth and purchase/adopt! But please, not from a pet shop/puppy farm. And think carefully about the type of dog -- if you're adopting, go for a smallish, hardy (mongrel -- hybrid vigour), young (if possible) dog that has proven to enjoy its own company and doesn't need constant attention. If purchasing, please research the characteristics and benefits of each dog breed that interests you. A samoyed would be a disaster in your situation. A labrador may be too big and is prone to health problems. A collie may be too active, a poodle too intelligent and inquisitive to be kept incarcerated. You get the drift ...

Good luck and enjoy the dog!

(i) No, but I've Chihuahua's.

(ii) Not Chihuahua's they become Chi-sicles.

(iii) Ex: 849 chf's was the last bill for 1 that became ill (no operation, just treatments).

(iv) You can not live the spontaneous lifestyle that you had before, "Fifi" as opposed to 22's "Killer/Fluffy" (more of a cat name, btw) must always be thought of. It's like having a baby, but that will never grow-up nor leave home (unless they have the "runaway now" cell in their brain that sparks all the time).

Dogs are a lot work, even small ones... do not underestimate the demands that they bring.

Idea: take one in for a friend that is going away, "dog-sit". It will give you a nibble of what it is like to have one.

Hi

The previous posts have covered all your questions very well but I just wanted to add that we travel very happily with our Dalmatian. We have never had trouble finding dog friendly hotels and find that visiting all these wonderful places with him highlights the lack of dog friendly facilities, parks etc in Basel. Especially in Italy he is always welcomed with open arms.

We have taken him to Austria, Venice, all through Tuscany, Paris, Milan, Prague, just to name a few. In fact he has probably seen more of Europe than a lot of people I know

Good luck with the decision making and hope all works out for you.

1.I agree with the travelling with pets. I was suprised to see how many hotels accept dogs.

2.I wouldn't leave my dogs out in a kennel, besides if you go for a smaller dog, they can live inside with you.

3.I currently have two Jack Russel terriers and do not think they are a financial burden but it depends on what you think expensive is.

5.I would recommend getting a dog as it can bring lots of happiness into a household. As 22yards said, adopt is a good idea. I did.

LOL our first dog had that cell. little git would randomly run off, one night we found him at the local pub, landlord said he heard scratching at the door, so opened it and in strolled our dog.

I wouldn't be keeping a dog outside either, especially not in winter! we have seen temps as low as -18c where we live, I wouldn't put anything through that.

And most of europe (UK excepted) are fine with dogs, never had an issue in france, germany, itally, here etc with hotels or resturants.

I have to admit that I went into dog ownership without thinking at all. My husband and I went to a rescue looking for a companion parrot for our parrot. But rather than coming home with a parrot, we ended up with a dog. She needed a home, she was chained to the wall opposite the parrots. One look at that dog and that did it - my husband wanted to take her home. He grew up with a house full of pets, I had none though I always wanted a dog.

We took the dog home (no second parrot) and I have never regretted. We also rescued two more dogs. Our children were not as young as yours at the time and I was not working full time. The responsibility for pet ownership is with the parents. Kids who are in school have a lot of other priorities and as they get older they have less time, not more. Also, as you and your wife both work that dog will be home most of the day alone and many dogs are not okay with this. I work from home, but even when out for hours at a time, our dogs are fine as they have each other. To answer your questions:

(i) we have never travelled with our dogs, other than local trips by car. We put them in kennels when we travel. Even if we had one dog, I would not take them along. It just limits what you can see and do.

(ii) unless you live on a farm, I would not recommend keeping a dog outside. It is not against the law, though you must have adequate housing, etc. Dogs bark, and if kept outside, your neighbours are bound to complain.

(iii) keeping a dog can get expensive because of unforeseen medical costs. There is pet insurance which you might be able to purchase, but you must be prepared to dip into your wallet not just for their everyday needs but the unexpected things.

(iv) dog ownership is a lifelong commitment and you and your wife need to be on the same page on this. You cannot convince someone to go along with this. Once you own a dog, your house will show evidence of it. Most dogs shed, some more than others. Dogs have accidents too, they can be sick while you are out and there is nothing you can do to prevent this from happening on your favourite carpet unless you confine your dog to an indoor kennel.

In your situation I would think twice, at least, about dog ownership.

Some great advice coming in...thanks everyone.

The advice on breeds could (if we decide to adopt) is v useful 22yds, and (JLP), yes, we did look after a friend's dog last yr - for 1 week during summer. A pup. Great fun but also did cause some (amusing afterwards!) upset too. Nice to have balancing views: very positive from Canta, Kevlegs and BB2, with some realistic negatives pointed out by Mrs Doolittle. I agree that it should be a unanimous decision - but this is challenging: you do have to be quite brave to make that leap!

PS: Are they your headphones, JLP? I'm always after a good pair!

First, I'm so glad to see that you are really thinking this through. Dog ownership is a big commitment, and often changes your life in ways one can't imagine.

One thing I always tell prospective adopters - never, ever bring a dog into your life primarily because your child wants one. You, the adult, must want the dog for yourself. Children grow up, change interests, leave the house - the dog will be yours.

Now, if you yourself want a canine companion, if you yourself feel your life isn't complete with out a furry friend by your side - and it just so happens that your child wants a dog too - then that's something else entirely.

The question is not only is a dog right for your family, but more importantly: Can your family provide what the dog needs?

For most dogs, living outside is not a good option - not the least because your neighbors. Should the dog bark and you are not right there to quiet it, you could find yourself facing noise complaints, and your dog could become the victim of a neighborhood revenge campaign. There are also very specific regulations in the new TschV as to accommodation for dogs kept in runs; do be sure you study the law - and don't forget that you'd likely need building permission to put up a dog house/run.

Most dogs crave the company of their people - they are social animals, living apart from the family is simply not fair to most individuals. Note that I said 'most'. A dog needs interaction, needs training time, play time, hanging-out-with-his-people time. Think of the dog's mental as well as physical needs.

But wearing my rescue hat, if your wife does not want the dog in the house, that sets alarm bells off for me. Lets face it - dogs are messy. It's part of their charm, it's part of the package of dog ownership. (But the mess is easily cleaned... ) I'd have some serious discussions with your wife about what she can, and cannot, tolerate before going further.

(The rescue I volunteer with would not consider anyone who wished a dog to live outside. Other rescues may not object.)

When my dogs were young and healthy the costs were insignificant; a few thousand a year** for training activities (Swiss prices ), perhaps 500 a year for medical expenses, and depending on the size of your dog, anywhere from a couple of hundred to a thousand a year for food. Holiday dog care is expensive though: for instance, ca 200 per day for in-home care, ca 40-75 per day for kenneling.

Now that mine are older medical expenses have become rather hefty - care for one of mine regularly ran over a thousand a month at the end. Granted this was a short term issue - but one does need to plan for some significant expenses at some point over the course of a dog's lifetime. Accidents happen, surprises crop up - it's very easy to run up a four and even five figure bill.

Your most pressing problem will be finding dog care when you travel - it is difficult to find dog sitters/walkers qualified and working legally under the new TschV. You put yourself and your dog at risk by employing someone working illegally - but the new law has made it very difficult to qualify. It's a big problem these days. If you travel a lot, I would not get a dog until you have secured reliable holiday care. Competition for kennel space is keen during traditional holiday periods, some place are even booked a year in advance.

Given that you work full time, a puppy is not suitable. A puppy needs someone home all day - he should not be left for more than a very short time in the first 6 months. And he still needs someone home most of the day for the first year. An adult dog would be a better choice for if you are not at home during the day.

---

Would I recommend that you get a dog?

Now, my dogs are everything to me. I spend most of my time involved in things canine, I wish everyone could know that same joy a happy waggly tail can bring into one's life.

BUT - again with my rescue hat on - I worry about what you have written about your wife's feelings, and about your own reservations. Given your priorities, I wonder whether your family is ready for all the complications of dog ownership at this stage of your lives.

I would suggest that you - and your wife - take the theory portion of the SKN now, before you go any further. (You are required to do this under the TschV before acquiring a dog, and you are required to complete the practical training part within the first year of ownership) And then have a long hard think about what a dog needs from his people and if your family can offer that at this point of your lives.

If your motivation is largely driven by your daughters desire, as a sort of testing-of-the-waters, why don't the two of you volunteer as dog walkers with a rescue? (You would have to be the volunteer, your daughter is too young - liability reasons.) That way, she could see what it would be like making a commitment to a dog - and you'd have the immense satisfaction of doing a good deed at the same time.

Wishing you all the best.

** ETA re: training costs - The mandatory training classes, the Sachkundenachweis theory course and then the SKN practical course, run ca. 100-150 per course. This is a one-off requirement. (Per dog, that is.) On-going training is optional (but highly recommended ). My figure above includes a yearly abo with my training club for Familienhund and Team Training classes, as well as the sports stuff we do. YMMV.

You and your wife should be prepared to be the ones who carry 98% of the load that dog owning means. Your daughter will be happy to walk the dog in the beginning and in nice weather, but she is far too young to carry the responsibility. And she will soon lose interest in walking or grooming or feeding, especially when it gets cold and wet.

I have always been a dog owner and I recently found that it is even too much for a 15year old who is a very responsible and sensible person otherwise.

What I told my daughter when she wanted a dog was: You agreed to take care of the dog, that includes exercise, feeding, grooming, keeping the house in a more or less presentable state. If you get lazy about it or don't take proper care of the dog, it must go. That does not mean I don't help out or walk the dog when she has no time.

(And of course I love him like crazy and would never give him away, but she doesn't need to know that )

I have a puppy which i rescued from a shelter. All previous posters gave great advice so im not going to repeat it. Just remember if you get a puppy you need to toilet train it and its hard work. I leave in a flat and cannot leave the dog alone for long which limits the things i can do (no spontaneous trips). I guess if you leave it in the yard now that the weather is warmer it should be ok (with proper shelter of course). But remember that in a few months the weather will be cold again and walking a dog in the rain in the freezing cold is not fun

As above.

If you both work you will need to walk the dog in the morning before work and in the evening when you get home...this isn't always fun but is a responsibility and needs to be done.

Travel with a dog around Europe is easy, most hotels take dogs (except UK) and most campsites take dogs.

A small dog isn't the only criteria you need to look at when choosing a dog. Small dogs may need lots of exercise and be constantly entertained, a large dog may love being a couch potato and be happy to sit looking out of the window for hours on end.

Size is a factor but not the most important one, breed of dog is super important.

Edit. also kids and dogs work as long as the kid is forced into some responsibility, like feeding and walking the dog as a regular task (personal expereince here)

Hi AP,

Interesting post. My daughter wanted a dog, and as I grew up with dogs I said yes. However, in CH we don't have a big garden, and the winters are cold (so the doog needs to be inside if not a Saint Bernard) so I put a limit at 10 kg adult weight.

Look at the avatar: see Kiwi. My daughter's choice of breed. Best thing that has happend to us, the breed is a wonderful indoor/small garden pet. Sometimes he travels with us and sometimes we put him up in a kennel it all depends on what is on the program. My daughter was 11 when we got Kiwi, but as pointed out before, he is my responsability when push comes to shove. So, if you are not prepared to step in and do the morning/evening walks, then it's not a good idea to have a dog. The garden (in a town environment) will not be enough. It does help to teach young adults one or tow things about responsability though.

Smell: no problem (and I've been through several breeds) but if the garden is used as a dog toilet somebody will have to clean up ... as for the grooming, that can be outsourced (we do during the cold season, he just smells terrible when wet).

Can only agree with the excellent comments given previously and would like to add some points (from personal experience)

- As Melloncollie said, vets' bills tend to increase with the dog's age

- Who's going to go outside with pooch when it has diarrhoea at 3 in the morning in the middle of winter when it's -5°C and snowing?... and then again at 4.30 and again at 5.30?

- Who's going to (1) notice and (2) take it to the emergency vet when it's eaten something it shouldn't have which got stuck in pooch's throat?

Unless the whole family collectively decide to take over the responsibility for a dog (or cat or whatever pet), then one person must absolutely and 100% be responsible and, quite honestly, I believe your daughter's too young and you and your wife don't have the time.

More brillaint advice. And it's really making me think. I am still remaining open either way.

Good points made re. the realisation that it is only responsible to assume that the child, indeed, may not assume appropriate responsibility (although my eldest daughter is a very committed individual).

Another good point made re. that the whole family should be committed - I would agree. I am just trying to gather up all the evidence for pros/cons.

Walking the dog in whatever weather is not going to be the problem - I like to have a reason for increased exercise and usually consider more challenge in this respect as a positive thing. For example, I like to cycle or run to work - currently about 10km - but would welcome another 5 (since, although less "convenient", it forces me to become fitter).

I am really taking on board both the plusses and the minusses.

In the end, I think they key thing will be what she thinks. As many of you point out, it really has to be our responsibility and not our daughter's - and if I am away, responsibilities would thus have to fall to her.

PS: I love the idea of a dog - so it's not just my daughter. My other 2 kids would also love it. My wife had a dog as a child (which she loved). However, it was a largely (although very gentle) an outdoor guard dog (she was brought up in Brazil). She can see the plusses, but is, I think, of the opinion that the minusses may win. Thanks again, and any more advice/opinions very welcome.

Fantastic advice, Meloncollie - thanks for the time you spent. I will be re-deading your post a few times, I am sure. Very interesting, and some good advice.

Its brilliant that your daughter is so in love with animals and I see no problem in you getting a new member of the family if everyone is on the same page with regards to their responsibilities.

Quite often than not, i've seen people within the same family refer to the dog as one particular person's dog. It should be the family's collective decision with regards to responsibilities as well as rules and boundaries for the dog. You've received lots of excellent advice on here already, my only input is not to put the dog in an outside kennel.

Weather factors aside, dogs are social animals and they will feel isolated if you keep them outside.

Also, as this is your family's first dog together, I would also seriously consider the dog's age and breed when adopting. Parents tend to give in to their children's pleas for that very cute looking dog without considering those factors. A terrier is bloody cute in my eyes but they might not be suited for everyone. Puppies are hard work and require intensive supervision and training. Older dogs (generally!) tend to be more mellow. Also, you mentioned that you prefer a smaller sized dog - be sure to do your research as to what breed suits your family's lifestyle as well as living conditions. A good example will be: your wife's idea of letting the dog run free in the garden is good but for certain dog breeds, its a disaster waiting to happen. Example: dogs in the terrier group are diggers (think many holes in garden), dogs in the hound group will be off like a shot once they catch a scent.

Good luck!

Same here, so just my two cents to this most useful conversation (I really wish more people would consider this decision as seriously as you have!):

- about the responsible children: my sister and I spent a good part of our childhood begging our parents, who had both grown up with dogs, for a dog. We were finally successful by the time I was 16 and my sister was 13. Sure, we kept our tasks of walking her etc but guess whose dog she ended up being anyway?

- as to the choice of dog, it's not only the size which is a factor of course, but more the character and whether it fits into your family habits, with what kind of people you are and what you like to do. With breeds, you can research ahead, with rescue dogs you should spend time with them on several occasions to be able to judge more realistically

- as to travelling, possible - yes, sensible (and comfortable for the dog) - not always. So you should definitely have an option for care outside your family

- as to outside dogs, Meloncollie surely has the best understanding of CH regulations, but just on the psychological side it's a whole different world out there... think about all the nice family moments missed, and how good of a bond you really would be able to build unless you are honestly an outdoors person inside and out

Life with a dog is oh-so-much worth living but only when the whole family is in the same boat, no excuses.

Good luck with your decision!

It's like adopting a new member of the family, just slightly different.

(i) Is it such a burden travelling (in Europe, at least) with a dog?

No. We've driven to France, Italy and Germany with our foster dog, a Lab, staying in dog-friendly hotels. She didn't destroy anything even though still younger than a year old and had lots of fun with the dogs of other hotel guests.

(ii) Can a dog be kept in an outdoor kennel happily in Switz, even in winter? (*I had thought you meant a boarding kennel. Sorry.)

If they have an indoor part as well and the dog is of a strong constitution and reasonably thick coat (ask your vet), yes.

(iii) Is keeping a (fairly small) dog a major expense?

Sorry can't rightly say 'coz the guide dog school paid for all her expenses. (Get a dog that doesn't require professional grooming.)

(iv) Have I missed any other important considerations?

Time and money spent on sending the pup and you (and your daughter) to Puppy-kindergarten (for essential socialization from age 10-16 weeks) and 'young dog' courses. Effort, patience and time in reinforcing training.

(v) Would you, on balance, recommend it?

Unreservedly yes! (Unless your finances are tight.) The love and relaxation your dog gives you and your family are invaluable, not to mention the responsibility and learning your daughter gains.

As for your wife's concerns, one of your daughter's duties will be to clean the dog's feet with a towel each time it comes back into the house. Or to give it a quick shower if necessary. Some dogs smell less doggie than others; I've had dogs that smell like fresh linen. (There's something wrong with my nose perhaps.)

Bear in mind that bad weather also means weather so bad that even the dog will look at you with an expression that says: "Are you insane!!??

Typically, this happens when you had a party and you really want to go to bed...