AHV for non Swiss EU citizens when roaming the world

I have a hypothetical question on my mind. I am considering taking early retirement to travel around the world, staying some years here and there, and, hopefully, continue to do so for a few years after reaching retirement age.

Who knows if I will actually settle down somewhere… :person_shrugging: but the question here concerns the payment of the AVS pension when the time comes. The administrative guide is not very clear in my opinion Social security agreements In principle, the payment should be made regardless of place of residence, but this is an EU document driven, and it’s not the first time that bureaucrats have overlooked something, possibly leaving Switzerland free to treat Swiss and European citizens differently as soon as they leave either of these two territories.

The rules are pretty clear: Arranging for your OASI pension, and occupational and private pensions to be paid out abroad

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I think the main problem you might have it where is could be paid into. If you’re moving around, staying somewhere for a few years then presumably you’ll use a local bank and would need to get the pension/s sent there. But if/when you move to another place for a few years and open a bank account there you’d need to update the Geneva office so the payments go to the right place.

Yes, it has been mentioned on the admin pages that you need to register your every permanent move, as well as reply every certificate form they send you to confirm you’re still alive

You always have had to register each permanent move regardless of your nationality. The last Canton where you worked should have your full AHV record - it my case their records were much better than my own covering three different Cantons over a long period with a gap abroad. There was no need for me to produce any evidence, but I was able to check out their data.
It was the Brits who wanted additional evidence of being alive, presumably an attempt to clamp down on pension fraud.

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Ok, happy to hear that I don’t have to deal with the ordeal of naturalization to have a piece of mind (the Swiss system is genius in that regard. A decade ago, when my remaining professional life seemed quite long I was jealous having to wait so long to become eligible to apply)

If you are not a Swiss citizen, you have bigger problems for this plan.

You will not be able to leave Switzerland for more than 6 months in 12 without losing your C permit.

So you’ll have to make the decision to reside in another country rather than just “travel around” in order to obtain health/travel insurance from somewhere.

And depending on your nationality, it could be hard to come back if you wished.

Backpacking is not my idea, rather spending 2-5 years here than there around Asian countries… but regarding your point, leaving Switzerland permanently doesn’t end the Swiss health insurance, only after you confirm a new permanent residence.

Not sure if early retirement makes a difference or not.

The piece you are misssing is that you can only be the responsibilitty of one authority in the EU/EEA and that is determined by your country of residence when you qualify for the earliest pension. That is a one time decision, once an authority has been assigned to you, you remain their responsibility there after regardless of where you decide to reside there after.

If you are outside the EU/EEA when you reach the point you can apply for a pension, that can be a big headache as no single authority is responseible. As you are on your own and will have to deal with each pension authority indivicually. Which depending on your situation, may mean you can’t optimise your contributions in total.

Healthcare coverage is the responsibility of the pension authority who pays the highest portion of your pension in the EU/EEA. That is the general rule. The country responsibility for your healthcare may have an arrangement with other EU/EEA states that means they may or may not require you to continue to be a member of their healthcare scheme. The Swiss health insurance companies almost all offer much lower rates if you locate to another EU/EEA country, but you retain the right to return to Switzerland for treatment at your discression.

So you need do the math and to choose carefully

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bob, pardon but you’ve thrown here a lot of false statements. Let’s talk about EU/EEA only, you’re always on the mercy of your country of permanent residence, when you move as a retiree it changes. Regarding health insurance it’s not he highest portion but the longest contribution period, but that only applies if you reside in a country were you haven’t contributed at all. If you worked at least a year in the country where you reside, then it also contributes to your pension and thus their health care rules applies.

This is explained on both sides, the Swiss and the EU, but neither of them really gives a clear picture about retirees living outside of the zone.

Thinking about this, it makes a lot of sense. Many people maximize monthly income by skipping retirement contributions. If a country where you enter retirement would became responsible for you till your last day, wherever you are, it’d be a loophole to retire in one of riches countries to get their minimum pension (even though it wasn’t earned from contributions) then move to the cheapest EU location to enjoy it

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I have never looked at the law. It may be useful to somebody to share my experience. I have US & Swiss nationality. I contributed to 4 State pension schemes: US, Québec, UK & Switzerland. I was resident in the UK at the time I claimed benefits. Each pays me directly to my US bank account (AVS remits via Swiss Postbank) except that UK DWS pays me in GBP to my UK account. Because of terms in the UK-US tax treaty I pay income tax only to the UK on these benefits. I had more than 10 years of contribution to each of the 4. When my spouse died my UK pension was uplifted to her higher rate.

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Indeed there is some wrong information here. Let me try to clarify the process.

According to the AFMP and the Swiss Federal Social Insurance Office (FSIO), EU/EFTA citizens have the same right to export their AHV/AVS pension worldwide as Swiss citizens. While “third-country” nationals (e.g., from India or Brazil) may lose their pension if they move to a country without a bilateral agreement, EU citizens do not. Because of the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons (AFMP) , your Swiss retirement (AHV/AVS) is “exportable” anywhere in the world.

You can receive your Swiss AHV pension anywhere in the world. It does not matter if Switzerland has a social security agreement with the specific country.

If you retire early and travel before reaching the official AHV retirement age, you will have “contribution gaps.” Each year of missing contributions reduces your final pension by about 2.3%.

The 5-Year Rule: EU citizens moving to a “third country” (outside EU/EFTA) can join the Voluntary AHV to keep paying in and avoid gaps. You must have been insured under the compulsory AHV for at least 5 consecutive years immediately before leaving Switzerland. You must apply to the Swiss Compensation Office (SCO) in Geneva within one year of leaving the compulsory system. Instead of a life certificate, the SCO focuses on your payment status. If you fail to pay your contributions for more than a year without a valid reason, you are automatically excluded from the voluntary insurance scheme and cannot re-join.

When you retire, every year the SCO will send you a “Life Certificate” (Lebensbescheinigung). You must have this signed by a local authority (embassy, notary, or police) and mail it back. If you are roaming, you need a reliable correspondence address or a way to receive this mail, or your payments will stop. You can have the pension paid to a Swiss bank account or a foreign account. Unlike Swiss nationals who often benefit from an “automated exchange” between Swiss embassies and the SCO, non-Swiss EU citizens residing outside the EU/EFTA usually must complete the manual life certificate process.

At retirement age there are significant differences how to claim the pension depending on your place of residence - in the UK it’s IPC Newcastle, in Spain it’s INSS, in Thailand or other non EU country direct payment by SCO Geneva. EU countries + UK use the EESSI, you do not apply for Swiss pension directly. If you reside outside the EU you need to contact SCO and submit form 318.370. Regarding the life certificate, non-Swiss EU citizens still don’t benefit from the automated data exchange and will need to fill out the manual form. Outside the EU the manual form is mandatory.

This wasn’t part of the original question but I figured it’s worth clarifying the health insurance situation. The country responsible for your health insurance (the “competent state”) is determined by where you receive your pension, not necessarily where you lived last. If you only receive a Swiss pension: Switzerland is responsible for your health insurance. Your Swiss insurer will issue the S1 Form, which you register in your EU country of residence to receive local healthcare. If you receive a pension from your EU residence country: That country is responsible for your health insurance. You do not need (and cannot usually have) Swiss insurance or an S1 Form. If you receive pensions from multiple countries (including Switzerland) but NOT from your EU residence country: The country where you were insured for the longest period is generally responsible for your health insurance and the S1 Form. If you live outside the EU you need to get a private health insurance. For specific calculations or if you have pensions from several EU countries, you should contact the Common Institution under the Federal Health Insurance Act (Gemeinsame Einrichtung KVG) in Solothurn, as they manage health insurance coordination for people living abroad.

What S1 Form means in practice: You receive medical treatment in your new country just like a local citizen, but Switzerland pays the bill behind the scenes. You do not pay the high “Swiss-resident” rates. Swiss insurers have special tariffs for residents in EU countries, which are usually significantly cheaper. One of the biggest perks of being under the Swiss system (LAMal) is that you usually retain the right to travel back (Right to return) to Switzerland specifically for medical treatment, which will be covered at Swiss rates. You can compare Swiss health insurance premiums on the official Priminfo.ch calculator by selecting “Residence abroad.” In most cases, you cannot keep your Swiss basic insurance (LAMal) when you move your permanent residence to a non-EU/EFTA country. You must deregister and cancel it.

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Thank you for your post.

Just a side note, speaking about AHV gaps is also really puzzling. For any immigrant in Switzerland the straightforward way to see things is: you earn 1/44 of the Swiss AHV for every year you contributed. There’s no such thing as a gap when you’ve been living abroad, prior or after living and working in Switzerland. On the Swiss side of things there’s only x/44 contributing years.

PS. I didn’t know about the ability to continue AHV after living Switzerland, but before retirement age. That’s really worth to know!

I tried to do that when I moved to Malta in 2014 aged 52 & was told it was not possible.

I didn’t realise you were that old, you’re looking pretty good for an 85 year old.

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Malta joined the EU in 2004 so that wouldn’t work. The UK or any other rest of world country should be fine.

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