AHV withdrawal after leaving CH

Finance, Taxes, Banking, Insurance and Retirement
1
Hello

I've just been reading through the threads on AHV, but they didn't quite answer my question.

I am British, my Fiancee is Swiss and we are now living in the UK.

I'm pretty sure I can claim back my AHV contributions, I worked in Switzerland for 3 years. However I'm not sure how to go about this. Any tips?

Can my fiancee withdraw his contributions, being Swiss?

Also I'm under the impression that if you want to return to CH to work, you must repay anything you have withdrawn, is this correct?

Thanks

2
Check out the information in the new sticky in the insurance sub-forum. You have to look down the list for the relevant PDF though. No spoon-feeding done by the AHV; they make you work hard for the details you need.

3
I don't believe either of you can withdraw your pension benefits for as long as you remain in the EU/EFTA. There are certain exceptional circumstances where this isn't true, but that will require more information.

4
Staying within EU/EFTA you can withdraw any money that is NOT BVG. You should get a print out with your AHV-balance statement where it mentions the full amount and the BVG-amount.

Deduct the BVG-amount from the full amount and that is what you can withdraw and take with you.

Don't ask me how to go about withdrawing it - I assume it only can be done one you are de-registered with the Gemeinde!

We are in the process of moving from CH back to UK, but are not quite at that point yet ...

5
Hiya

I am Swiss and when I first left in 2001 I could withdraw ALL of my pension money (not possible anymore due to EU/EFTA laws now in place). But when I came back at the beginnig of 2005, I did NOT have to pay anything back! I had the option though to pay some money into the pension fund if I wished to do so, but it was up to me to do it or not.

6
I'm sure you cannot withdraw AHV if you remain within EU/EFTA. You may be able to withdraw part of BVG as discussed on other threads.

7
Nope, I have spoken to my Pensionskasse and was told the following:

- BVG cannot be touched!

- Take the full amount of pension funds and deduct the BVG-amount and then that's what one is allowed to take with you!

This is the case if one moves to any EU/EFTA country!

8
is there possibility that BVG & AHV can be hold in switzerland for indefinite time untill I reach retirement age to get pension if I live in USA being a non-EU?

9
There is a loophole, become 100% self employed, cash in the pension then leave.

10
I'm not sure if you a simply wrong, or if there is a different use of terminology.

For my understanding AHV is pillar 1 and this cannot be touched when leaving to EU/EFTA.

BVG is pillar 2 and depending on certain conditions can be taken, either partially or fully.

The core of pillar 2 is the mandatory (LOB) element. This may not normally be taken, however, you may have additional non-mandatory value in pillar 2 from additional purchases. This is not covered by the 2007 treaty and may be withdrawn. Even the LOB element may be taken for house purchase, or if you are not subject to mandatory pension insurance in your destination country.

Please take a read here > http://www.verbindungsstelle.ch/docu...version-en.pdf

11
Yes, and I believe you can even do this and stay. There has to be a catch to this though - otherwise everyone would do it !

12
Ooops ...... I thought this was a thread about Withdrawal (symptoms) after leaving CH. Must be the weather affecting me...?

13
The rule pertaining to AHV (state pension) and BVG (occupational pension) are different.

AHV

You have to phone/Email the AHV, they can advise. I would phone, if they try to direct you to the WEB, speak to a Supervisor tell them their WEB info is too completed to navigate!!

I think you have to leave CHF.50,000, or its transferred to the uk Social system. But any money over that you can have refunded.

I doubt, if you worked only 3 years that you've exceeded the CHF50K threshold.

BVG

Once you've left Switzerland for 2 Years, you can apply for a refund.

To get a full list of your AHV and BVG you only have to supply your AHV Nr. (on-line at AHV.ch). They then supply you with a list of all Pension funds that hold your contributions. you then have to apply to each for a statement.

If, you can get a refund, it might be worth converting/transfering all monies into one fund, this will reduce the Admin Fees.

Check-out the Swiss Banks, many operate BVG accounts and their rules may be more beneficial.You can then ask them to transfer the various monies into one fund. You may then be able to get a refund. I don't know, so ask

Or you can leave it where it is (it gains a little Interest), then if you leave the EU, you can then apply and receive the full amount. Or you can try transferring it off-shore via QROPS. This protects it from UK Tax and has other advantages. Suggest you check it out you-self.

If, in the future you return to Switzerland (presuming you've married your FianceĢ), then his/your BAV contributions may be used regarding buying a property. Also worth checking this out before getting a refund!

To be honest, if you can not get a full refund, then leave it in Switzerland. The Swiss system of AHV/BAV is, I believe better than the UK. The UK, it seems to me are trying to find numerous legal ways of robbing people of their future Pension; as they realise they can not afford to pay for it!

QROPS, is an option for both you and your husband, but it carries risk and you should check it out (and the Company).

I am considering having my UK occupation pension transffered off-shore via QROPS, inorder to avoid the 55% tax levied against any Lump-sum payment.

Hope some of this helps.

14
I don't think it is that simple. I looked into it 3 years ago and they make it very difficult to get your money, it has to be the right business with the right equity etc. It is possible but you have to jump through hoops to get it.

15
Switzerland has an excellent pension system. The government and banks here are trustworthy. If you do succeed and withdraw any money you will lose extra interest payments and you will pay Swiss tax on the money. The tax rate varies between cantons, it depends on where the pension fund is registered.

Why should you want to remove your pension fund? You will need this capital to fund your retirement.

16
Hi,

I am at the process of leaving Switzerland and going back to my home country (EU).

So, you suggest to leave the whole PF here and cash it out only when it is retirement time? I was under the impression that once I would leave the country I would have to ensure that my benefits get transferred to my new country of residence. Was I wrong?

Anythings that need to be particularly careful about?

Thanks!!

17
if you are moving to the EU your voluntary payments can be transferred, but the AHV and BVG and 3rd pillar stay here until you are 65. You will then be paid a pension according to the rules at that time.

I retired here 2 years ago. I went to my Gemeinde and completed a form. This was sent to an office in Geneva whom contacted the government pension offices in the countries where I had previously worked. These sent me application forms (Plus the Swiss AHV application forms), and I am now receiving four small pensions.

You should start the process 2 or 3 months before you retire. Some make some difficult demands: one office wanted proof that I was studying at school from ages 16 to 18. I wrote to my old school whom replied they had no record of me ever being there! I finally applied to a local council archive, who photocopied a copy of the school magazine stating I had left school. The school then issued me a certificate of attendance.

.

18
Thanks for the info.

I think trying for a refund depends on how long you've been here and how old you are;

as the Swiss pension system is pretty good; for people who have lived here for years and are close to retirement (within ca.10 years), I would think receiving a pension would be a better choice, even if they are leaving permanently. The Swiss Franc is a strong currency and will probably remain so.

19
Are there any documents to file or anything that one needs to do before one leaves Switzerland for UK in order to ensure that one gets paid the Swiss pension? Where do we apply at the age of 65 in the future? Someone wrote that our AHV gets transferred to the UK social security system???

By the way, AHV has been extremely unhelpful in answering questions to emails and when I call them, they do not speak English....

A Swiss friend told me that most of the foreigners when they leave Switzerland they forget to claim the AHV pension and that it is very small amount that ones gets per month.

Is this monthly pension paid out until death? and does it get transferred to the surviving spouse for married couples?

How do they calculate how much one gets paid per month? Does it depend on how much one has contributed (e.g. if someone had very high salary and they had a lot paid in to AHV)?