Air India flight to London carrying 242 people crashes in Ahmedabad

Give me a DC3 any day.

When pilots were pilots and not just systems managers.

To be clear, the fuel did not freeze. Small amounts of water within the fuel froze into ice crystals which restricted the fuel flow.

Jet fuel doesn’t start to freeze until it reaches -40 degrees (or lower, specific fuels are used for extreme conditions).

It’s interesting (to me) that BA38 was the first Boeing 777 hull loss, and it was due to fuel starvation.

The Air India flight was the first 787 hull loss and there is now a possibility that it may have also been due to fuel starvation.

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It very much reminds me of BA38, even though it’s clearly not the same.

I stick by my 12 Jun post:
*There was enough power on take off to rotate and get airborne.

  • I would say within 15 seconds of getting airborne, the first engine flamed out, hence they left the landing gear down, and things in the cockpit would have got very hectic very quickly.
  • Shortly afterwards, the 2nd engine was lost and they were out of options except try to land on the softest building. The fault may have been fuel, they may have shut off the wrong fuel/engine manually. You can see in the video the plane looks like its on a glide slope.

Naturally it will be critical to work out WHO was at fault.

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Stress happens, stress is bad:

Yes, but it is even worse if you don’t get regular simulator training to learn how to cope with sudden technical failures.

In 1998, Channel 4 produced a 3-part documentary on aviation disasters called “Black Box”. It is still the best documentary I’ve seen on the topic today, as the interviews were to the point, narration was outstanding and it was not dramatic or sensationalised. And many of the topics (crew training, reliance on technology ,etc) still hold true today.

The quality is VHS, but still worth a watch.

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If you like Air Crash investigation programmes, Mentor Pilot’s are really good

https://www.youtube.com/@MentourPilot/videos

Yeah, these are good, I am also a fan of Hoover (Pilot Debrief). Ex-USAF turned commercial pilot, he looks at accidents big and small, and most importantly, what can be learned.

His videos though unfortunately have turned me off getting a PPL.

Don’t let it do that, you’re twice as likely to die riding a bike than flying a light aircraft.

Private flying (GA in the U.S.) ~10 - 15 (Fatalities per million hours)
Bicycling (urban/road) ~30 - 40 (Fatalities per million hours)

I analyze the general aviation crash reports and statistics here in Switzerland for… (confidental) :wink:

A general (and quite disputable) conclusion can be made: problems start when people stop considering the aircraft like a toy and more like transport because the pressure to perform under non-ideal conditions is there. Commercial aviation is a system of people, rules, protocols and legislation that allow to operate under almost any condition. General aviation will never reach this.

If people can afford an airplane, people can afford charter services for transportation. Thus, piloting yourself remains a hobby, out of pressure to perform, safer.

Solid training and sound judgment are the most important factors in general aviation safety. Back in the day I trained at Habsheim Aerodrome with two outstanding instructors, an Air France first officer and an EasyJet senior captain. They drilled into me the importance of rigorous checklist use, spatial awareness, proper stall recovery and a healthy respect for weather limitations.

That foundation made me a cautious, risk-averse private pilot, because in the end, most accidents stem from pilot error not mechanical failure.

That isn’t far from many of the conclusions reached by Hoover. For example, family plan to fly from home airstrip to ski resort airstrip. On the day, weather is deteriorating, but Dad (PPL) doesn’t want to disappoint the family, even though (albeit slower) alternatives exist. Story ends tragically.

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Commonly known as ‘get-there-itis’, this mindset has led to tragedy even among the most experienced commercial pilots e.g. pushing to land despite an unstable approach or deteriorating weather conditions.

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Which may also happen while driving a car, stop for a while, take a nap, etc. Or while climbing a mountain, the mountain will always be there. Or recreational diving, so many months of looking forward to vacation only to cancel because conditions are not good…it takes presence of mind to say no.

The reason of my comment is the departure and declared destination airports of those flights which are included in the reports. Most accidents don’t happen while on training or sightseeing flights in a nice afternoon, they are easily identifiable by having same departure and destination airport. The ones between Swiss airport and something across the Alps or somewhere else in Europe are a significant part of the record.

Most IFR flight plans require an alternate airport. However there’s often an unspoken pressure from the airline to reach the original destination, as diverting can incur significant costs e.g. transport, hotels, meals, and compensation for hundreds of passengers.

While safety is ultimately the captain’s responsibility, they may still be mindful of how a diversion could be perceived by their employer.

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