Obviously lots of angles to consider, but I'd love to get the views of anybody that has experience of Switzerland and that area of Canada to do a bit of a compare/contrast for me so we can decide whether to even consider it....
Anybody help?
Thanks
I'm sort of being offered a job opp in Toronto, and I'm trying to decide whether to pursue it at all...
I was born and raised there and never want to live there again because of the traffic, poor transit system, high taxes, long health-care waiting times, low salaries, bad weather, distance from mountains, social inequality and stressed-out population. I do miss the restaurants, though.
But apart from that, its great, right??
Thanks for that!
The job is actually based slightly outside Toronto so could choose whether to live in the centre or outside (South West).....any nicer areas around the city to consider? Or is the whole place just a disaster (in your op)
The main problem with Toronto is that it's very difficult to find decent housing within a reasonable commuting time to work. North Toronto is very nice, upscale, with good public schools. My parents live just outside Toronto, in Thornhill, which is also very pleasant. BUT expect to spend a lot of time in your car if you live in the suburbs. If you have kids, keep in mind that if they go to public school, they can only attend schools outside their home district in exceptional cases, so do your research before choosing a place to live.
When you say Southwest, it gives me the shivers because I think of Hamilton, where my mom lives. You can get beautiful Victorian homes cheap in the historical centre, but most of the city is pretty depressed and not pretty. Small cities in Canada just don't have a lot of culture besides mall culture. If you like to spend a lot of time alone outdoors, you can live somewhere outside Toronto on a nice piece of property, but again, you've got to love driving.
But if it's west Toronto, there is a beautiful area in Etobicoke where it's like you are living in a forest, but I imagine it's quite expensive and difficult to find something. I'm not sure how the housing market is now, but when I sold my house a few years ago, there was a bidding war and we got 50,000 more than the asking. And no, it wasn't a big, modern, fantastic house (just well-decorated ). So keep that in mind if you're buying. Also another thing about Toronto is that one street can be wonderful and the next a nightmare.
I can't go back because now I love skiing too much and it's really a sport for the elite in Canada, and sadly I'm not part of the elite. And I don't like living out of a car.
There are people who hate Toronto, like the person above, but their opinion isn't the only one.
Toronto is a great North American city, but with the issues of traffic and transit that such cities have.
I had to laugh when the person said skiing is for the elite in Canada.
Anyways, hopefully some less extreme views will surface here for you. Where is your job exactly?
P.S. Why do people always respond to such questions: well there are no mountains, so it sucks. Seriously, not everyone's life is all about the mountains. And it might be nice for even someone who's is to check out an urban lifestyle for a change.
As per contrasting to CH, well Toronto is overtly multicultural, immigrant friendly, new world attitude, progressive, very urban at the core, and a very big city.
You will definitely find way better food there, and with much more variety. Life will be faster if you want it to be, and possibly more stressful depending on on your commute.
If you live in the centre, then there is much to offer.
We need more details, like family, job location, what you like.
It's definitely different from here, as opposite as you can get, so if you're looking for an exciting change, it would be an opportunity.
I worked in Toronto and lived in Hamilton. Toronto is definitely a really nice city. It's a busy fast paced city though, the rat race is in full effect. My brother lived there for 5 years, and dreaded the move that took his job to the carribean, he still want to be back in toronto. Transit isn't great (crappy compared to Europe), but decent for Canada, traffic is pretty brutal in and out of the city during busy times. Never had a problem with healthcare--I could get an MRI or what needed with in hours/days. Weather is hot in the summer (but AC is standard), not extremely cold (get the odd -15 -20 days).
It has a fairly thriving nightlife, some very interesting social zones (queen west, kensington, Chinatown etc.) again in comparison to other cities around.
Very friendly people, and down to earth compared to other Metro centers and Switzerland. Otherwise it's hard to compare to Switzerland, just different.
Hamilton is a bit different though, I would avoid the downtown and east end at any cost. The fact that 50 years ago the largest employers were Stelco-Dofasco (huge steel mills, you can't miss them) and now they're essentially gone and the top employer is Hamilton Health services (social services). The city has a depressing rough edge to it.
Sorry, but I grew up in a middle class area and very few of my friends went skiing because you have to fly, stay in hotels etc. I don't hate Toronto, but it is not an easy place to live. I'm a 5th generation Torontonian and I know the city pretty well, having lived in a lot of different parts. I just know too many people who are struggling there. As for the transit and traffic, they're not merely big city problems but signs of a lack of vision on the part of the goverment and a turn towards the neo-liberal idea that public transport must be self-sustaining. The same ideas have led to people who've worked their whole adult lives somehow not qualifying for unemployment insurance they've paid for. Or finding a tumour in your body and having to wait weeks or months for an investigation. The lack of solidarity is disturbing. As for my personal experience, I love the mountains because I have an access to nature here that I never had there. I had no car so I was stuck. And I'm one of those crazy people who believes that everyone in society deserves a reasonable quality of life.
Except for the skiing, you're describing issues that all of Canada has. Not specifically Toronto.
Hi, I am also from Toronto and would agree that more info is required to answer your post. South-west covers a rather large area (including London, Ontario, which is a 4 to 5 hour drive away). Many people tend to say they are from Toronto when they are from places that are quite a distance away, just because we know that people have heard of it. In terms of health care, I think that there are issues, but it's not generally as dire as the other poster here is saying (my opinion). There are always stories of huge wait times and problems with seeing a doctor out there, but it has never been my experience. I always had access to good and rather quick care. Another thing to make sure you consider is the tax system. I'm assuming that if you are considering a move from here to there, the salary must be pretty good. If so, you can expect your income tax to be somewhere in the 35-40% range. They have just harmonized sales taxes there, so I'm not sure of that impact as I'm living in Switzerland now, so I don't really care. Housing can be expensive, but compared to here, your rent and/or purchase price will be much lower for an equivalent sized place. If you are right in the city, then transit is pretty good, not like here, but it's workable. If you are outside the city, then it gets pretty iffy. In the summer, the termperatures can be quite high (like here), but with much higher humidity, so it can be pretty sticky. In the winter, it gets bitterly cold (minus 20 occurs frequently), although the amount of snow that falls has generally been decreasing over the past few years. I do miss the seasonal changes, but not that cold!!! Travelling around is much different than here because of the distances. People from Europe often have a hard time understanding the scope of the distances that we grew up with. Air travel is expensive and the airports in Canada treat people very much like the American security forces treat their passengers. As mentioned before, it is a very multicultural city with lots going on. I miss all of the international foods that are readily available from most shops. If you have any other questions, please feel free to PM me.
JP
↲That's true. But I only know about living in Toronto. A brilliant thing about Canada in general is it's a great place if you're entrepreneurial because it's very easy to start your own business . Maybe I'm just not ambitious enough to take advantage of the possibilities.
I was there when I was 12 for a while and before going to Florida, Toronto was the worst place I'd ever been. I remember the suburbs being so large that a walk to the nearest shops was almost impossible. A car was needed and my driving skills were rather poor at that time (when I was 12). I've heard some bits are nice, but I wouldn't go near the place. I've heard Vancouver and Montreal are the places to be in Canada.
Things may have changed in the past 50-60 years
On a more serious (and off topic) note, I've lived in Montreal and Vancouver also. Both have some of the same issues that Toronto has. Traffic is much worse in both of those cities. Montreal has so many one way streets and always confused me when driving there, but it is one great party city and is very beautiful. Vancouver has no major throughfare and because of the river system it is a major pain to get around in during peak travel times (never mind that they close down the bridges if someone decides to take a leap from it while they "investigate"), but you can golf and ski on the same day, so that's a major plus in my books! I would say in most places in Canada, unless you live very close to work or the city center, you will need a car. Canada has never properly invested in public transit, and now because the costs are so high to build them, the cities probably never will. Car ownership and traffic is just a fact of life in any big city there.
All....thanks so much for the replies.....exactly what I wanted.....
The role will be based in Mississauga, and I'll move there with my wife, no kids.
But, you know, I wasn't necessarily looking for the "which is the best pizza place" advice (yet ) , i just wanted a general view of the city and area
Of course, we'd visit before making any decisions, but as those of you from corporate cultures are aware....once these things start rolling, they are sometimes difficult to stop so i wanted very early advice.....which I got!
Lived in Toronto proper for 10 years, from Yonge & Eg, to Queen's Quay and then to the Beaches(or is it the Beach ).
Toronto is a good place to be if you live/work in the city. You can easily avoid the areas/ time of day where you can get shot. Just got back from a visit Monday and somebody was assassinated in Chinatown @ 3:30 a.m., so avoid Chinatown late @ night, etc.
Overall, Toronto is a great place. The housing boom is at a peak, so buying a place might be pricey. Good news is lots of condos for rent.
Toronto is a city of neighbourhoods. As Hash said, one of the most multicultural cities in the World. Highlights include St. Lawrence Market, Art Gallery of Ontario, Pride Parade, Toronto Raptors, Toronto International Film Festival, Restaurants. Lowlights include traffic, violence in the perimeter, homeless people, no liquor on Sunday's, crumbling infrastructure, bed bugs.
Mississauga is an enigma. 90 year old mayor runs the town with an office of 6 people. Built for a cars and not people. Would certainly want to avoid commuting, but living in Mississauga is more condusive to families with kids nesting. Personally, I would not live there if the government subsidized my mortgage.
I'd check the location of your office and proximity to the GO train. While certainly not the most reliable system, I reckon rent a condo downtown within walking distance to Union Station and commute would be the option, especially if your poor wife is not working. Otherwise you are looking @ minimum 2.5 hours a day in traffic. Besides, what better excuse to work from home then to say the trains are not running - can't do that in Switzerland!
Being born and raised in Toronto, I would say that, yes I love the city (for all its craziness).
Although you definitely need a car!!!
Im trying to leave Switzerland somehow, Ive gotten some offers back in Canada (not in Toronto specifically), but I would like to move back.
Switzerland doesn't suit me very well for some reason.
I'm Toronto, not Brampton or Hamilton or Oshawa...or whichever city people like to classify as Toronto.
Grew up on the Danforth (Chester station, so about 5 minutes by subway into the downtown core). But lived in North York (Finch station 25 minutes from downtown) for the past 4 years so I know how difficult the transportation is up there.
I'll try to be objective though Toronto loving is very strong in my veins.
PROS: The feeling you get when you're in Toronto is incomparable to anywhere else. You can be from any part of the world, from any walk of life but when you're in Toronto, people don't make you feel out of place or a `foreigner`. You can fit in pretty easily. Like a lot of the the other posts have already mentioned, Toronto is a city of neighbourhoods. Each individual, fun but most importantly welcoming...except for the financial district.
The arts and culture is vibrant, lots of festivals in the summer and winter ranging from Toronto Film Festival, Beaches Jazz Festival to Taste of the Danforth to Cavalcade of Lights, Blanche Nuit amongst numerous food festivals. For you and your wife, weekends in the summer will be jam packed...winter a little bit less.
Restaurants are much much more affordable and offers greater diversity. This I realllllyyyy miss. A few years ago top restaurants started a Summerlicious and Winterlicious menu where you can have a 3 course or 4 course menu for under 20, 30 dollars per person. It might've increased a little now...and you have to reserve for the top notch restaurants like Canoe. Here 20 dollars hardly gets you crappy Chinese food. (No offense to Chinese food...I love it, just not how it's made here)
It's true skiing is not as good as here and the decent ones are a little bit further (toward Quebec or..Vancouver) but there's always Blue Mountain which is a little outside the city.
CONS: The TTC (public transit)....I don't want to go on a rant about it but I have to say, the whole system NEEDS complete revamping. The drivers are hardly ever on time, they stop the buses or streetcars in the middle of a route to go to Tim Horton's or Coffee time...causing people to miss their other bus(es). And this has happened numerous times during the night when buses run once or twice every hour in the suburbs!! So because of their coffee, I've had to wait many times in the freezing cold for 40 minutes...sometimes I miss the last bus completely and have to cab it.
The streetcars downtown are old fashioned and horrible...from one side of downtown (King station) to the other side (St.Andrew's) can take up to 30 minutes during rush hour...when it's only a 7 minute walk..so you figure out how long it's going to take for you to get home.
BUT if you choose to live downtown...you can bike or just walk.
The city is getting a little more dangerous...like a recent shooting in a Chinatown restaurant. But that happened after clubbing hours when a select few establishments in Chinatown continued to serve drunk clubbers, it wasn't in broad daylight on a sunday... But I mean unless certain factors (illegal trafficking of firearms, gangs, migration, poverty...etc) that lead to crime are controlled, crime itself will not naturally decrease given the overall increase in the populace. Toronto has one of the lowest crime rate of major North American cities, but compared to Switzerland, it's high.
The public schools are dependent on their neighbourhoods. Nicer neighbourhoods demand a higher price on real estate which means more property tax which in turn fund the schools in that neighbourhood. I went to an inner city one and it was great. But one thing I'd love to stress is the availability of alternative schooling in Toronto. From grade 7 to the end of high school, there are many alternative options scattered around the city. If you want a more attentive, tailored education with a more academic or socially liberal curriculum, you have that option, all covered by the ministry. I personally went to a regular high school and an alternative school, and I learned so so so much more at the alternative school, not just academic wise but learning about social injustices, participating in rallies and demonstrations, and engaging in causes that a regular high school student wouldn't even think about.
sorry I ranted. I told myself I would only type a few lines...but all in all, DOn't live in Missisgua (I will never learn how to spell that city)..if you want to fully appreciate the conveniences and diversity Toronto has to offer with less of the cons (TRANSIT!). If you can, live in one of the many downtown or close to downtown neighbourhood (Beaches, Danforth, Little Italy, Annex, Forest Hill, Rosedale, etc).
If you choose to live in Missisuga (I give up), you need a car and be prepared to spend some time in it. Or stay in Switzerland.
I am from Toronto and all my family is still there. I love it and try to get back at least 2 or 3 times a year and while I love it here I do intend to go back at some point. The family is in the city so I cant speak much to Mississauga. I read the other posts and I would say ignore the negatives ones. Toronto is a wonderful city. Yes compared to Switzerland it is busy, there is alot of traffic and infrastructure is pretty bad but compared to other places (the US) its still very good so pick your baseline.
The only thing i would say is that Mississagua is a sprawling suburb with some really nice areas and some that feel like a lego village which have popped up over the last few years. These tend to be 100% dependent on having and driving your car everywhere - not a store within walking distance. If you like the idea of walking to get the paper or a coffee keep that in mind when looking for a place to live or else you may never walk again......
I'm from Toronto and currently live in Zurich. Toronto is an exciting, diverse and very liveable big city with many neighborhoods you can live in. The thing I would miss most about Switzerland are the incredible outdoor sports opportunities which just aren't present in the Toronto area. Otherwise, I'd say the actual urban experience is much more dynamic in Toronto that Zurich.
I'd say this is a very harsh assessment of Toronto. If you live in the city, traffic is not a problem. The transit system is not what it is in Switzerland, not by a long-shot. But it's not bad at all by normal standards. The medical system is fine. My GP has always been able to see me on quick notice and I've never known anyone to suffer a long wait for anything urgent. Low salaries? I guess that depends on what you do for a living, but my sense is that the standard of living is high relative to other large cities. Winters in Toronto such (although global warming is taking the bite out of them), the mountains are impossibly distant and you can be afflicted with urban stress, true. But it's a great city. Not nearly all doom and gloom like this reviewer says.