Anyone have experience with PwC or any big 4 firm here in Switzerland?

Visas, Permits, Passports and Naturalization
1
Hi All -

I'm looking to learn more about the big 4 culture here in Switzerland. Specifically my background is in Audit, and I might also be interested in other internal roles. I am familiar with US GAAP, have an active CPA license in the states, and several years' experience with PwC. What I'm curious about :

1. Are there opportunities for me if I don't speak any languages besides English and only have US certifications (currently trying to learn German, and willing to learn local laws/regulations but clearly that will take time).

2. What is the culture like as far as expected work hours, vacation, work-life balance, etc.? I get the impression Swiss laws and culture wouldn't stand for the type of work required of US employees of big 4 firms, but... I'm curious. Right now I only work during busy season and tend to work 65 hour work weeks on average with a lot of pressure to work long hours (with no overtime if you're a full time salaried employee). When I was full time, I had 5 weeks vacation and wasn't always able to take the time off due to client deadlines, etc. It's gotten better over the years, but... I'm not sure I'm interested in looking into full time positions if it's not different here!

3. Anyone know a good way to get my foot in the door? What's socially acceptable here? I'd like to explore a similar temporary/contract position with them like I have in the states, but it's not the type of job that would be listed on their website that I can just apply for. Is it acceptable to just walk into the office and ask the secretary if I can speak with someone in HR? Better to call them (and if so, what office? I live in Aarau, but anticipate the most opportunities for me would be in Zurich)? Anyone want to try to get a referral bonus for helping me get a job (wouldn't be too soon, and I'll definitely ask you 50 questions first, so don't have high expectations but I know in the states they offer sizable referral bonuses, so I figure I'd throw it out there)?

Also note I am in the country on a holiday visa, in order to actually pursue employment I will either need the company to sponsor my visa, or to marry my boyfriend. So mostly I'm information gathering at the moment in order to plan my strategy for next year and potentially start the relationships I would need to move forward with trying to find work in CH.

Thanks in advance, and feel free to PM me if you're willing to have/looking for a more one on one conversation on this topic.

2
Not audit, not PwC, and no longer in Switzerland - but still Big4.

All the people I know at Big4s with non-Swiss credentials and no local languages were/are on temporary assignment ("secondment") from the homeland. Some folks subsequently converted that into a permanent transfer, while some decided to go back to the "home countries" - US, UK, Israel, Singapore, etc. Would that be an option for you? Internal job boards for assignments, etc. I'd say brush up on IFRS, but if you are a relatively recent CPA, that's part of the required knowledge so you might already be up to scratch with that.

I did not speak a word of German going in, but started to learn it once I got to Zurich. I am however fluent in Italian and French (two of the Swiss national languages), which, combined with English and my US experience, allowed me to carve a niche for myself over there. I personally think that, for long term career development, the local language is more than a "nice to have", unless you are in a specialty area where your skills are very unique and in high demand.

I like being in the US, but I'll admit I am not an auditor and I do hear the audit "horror stories" from time to time For what it's worth, I found that Switzerland's work hours were generally more predictable, but also more rigid. Also a lot more office "face time". I like the flexibility to set my own schedule and my own work location as long as the job gets done, which I can do here in the US as I please - I kind of missed that flexibility over there.

In Switzerland people were more respectful of time off (e.g. no such thing as being reachable always and available at all times), but things have changed -in my neck of the wood at least- and from partners to first year staff everyone takes their vacation time, nobody bothers them and the firm still survives ( unsolicited personal opinion: if a leader can't get her s*it together and has to bother her staff on vacation, then she's a very poor planner and a very poor leader ).

Perhaps some auditors in CH can provide more context on their side of the fence. Good luck!

3
Overtime is still mandatory here, and the various firms have different ways to try to avoid paying it (note: above a certain amount, they cannot legally avoid paying it out, so you can hit them with a bill when you leave, at least). I was in a different field, consulting, but the auditors still had their busy season and still had downtime for studies in the summer.

I did find that most of the auditors needed local languages, but we had more than a couple audit partners who spoke only English, so it must work.

4
I work for a big4 (have done so for years - in UK, NL, IR and now CH). Don't speak German (learning it - my employer pays for in house German classes for those that move here without German). It is a challenge - without German approaching smaller clients is near impossible. Most larger clients speak English as the business language.

I'm not in audit.

Working overtime happens due to client commitments - but we pay overtime @ 1.5x or time-en-lieu. Compared to the UK it's MUCH less. Where I would regularly work throughout the night in the UK (and on weekends), this hasn't happened here. I have yet to sleep in the office, and judging by what I've seen, I don't think it'll happen.

The visa issue, no idea (EU passport).

As to your third point, I'm happy to reply to any questions by pm. I don't think you would have much luck cold calling, but then again, not sure. Maybe approaching someone on linkedin/xing?

5

The rules for hiring of non-EU nationals puts you last in the queue

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home…zulassung.html

and I doubt they’d manage to get a permit for you for a temp/contract position.

Marry and that problem goes away.

6
Without a recognized accounting qualification and local language skills there is going to be very few opportunities for a Swiss big 4 to make use of your skills on a full time basis. And while knowledge of US GAAP is important, at this stage most European accounting bodies offer specialist qualifications in this area. So all in all I'd say you are going to need a lot of luck rather than skill to land a position.

If you are intending to move here for the long term, then in addition to language skills you should consider a route to getting recognition for your accounting skills.

7
Thanks everyone for your replies!

A secondment is't really an option for me since I am not a full time employee in the states (don't want to be). I've asked them about international opportunities through the program I work under, but it's relatively new and small program so I'm not getting a lot of help there... that being said if an international office were interested in me, the US office should be able to help with the red tape...

It's likely that if I decide I want to pursue living in Switzerland and getting a job here I'll marry my boyfriend (we've been talking about it anyway, and it would make all the visa/work issues much easier). Although then I'll have to be asking all sorts of questions about marrying a man who owes the gov't $$ and how not to be responsible for him being irresponsible in his younger years?

8
I may be wrong, but under Swiss marriage laws - anything you bring to the relationship before the marriage stays with said person if you ever split up... be it positive or negative assets.

9

https://www.ch.ch/en/marriage/

10

Hi Dbibeau,

Look, items 1. and 2. are irrelevant if you have a non-EU passport.

I am not a CPA but I've seen a good number of people working in audit/finance/consulting/etc., without speaking a word of German, BUT they do have EU citizenship.

In fact there are many Americans working in CH but the catch here is that many of them came to CH by transferring within their companies: for example, a guy worked for Google in California and got transferred to Zürich under a B permit. My impression is that some employers in Zürich go an extra mile to "sponsor" a visa for a non-EU if they already know you from back home.

11
Only applies if the couple are living here at the time.......

12
They probably also have European accounting qualifications that are recognized in Switzerland and may even have passed the conversion exam (offered in English) to allow them to hold practice certificates.

13
If the EU passport is my biggest problem, I'll just marry my boyfriend and make that problem go away (I think after being with him for 3 yrs it wouldn't be the biggest mistake I've ever made ).

And PwC does know me from back home (I've got 7 or 8 yrs experience with them on my resume at this point...), which is why I always knock on their door first. My experience with them is that if they want you for a position, they'll help you get whatever certifications you need. Problem is they have no idea who I am, so how can they want to hire me? (Partially kidding, partially why I want to know the best way to get my foot in the door.)

I know it's not the easiest thing in the world... but it can't be the hardest thing I've ever done either

14
So do they know you or not?

I assume you mean they (PwC) know you back home, but the local Swiss member firm does not know you yet, right?

Another suggestion: figure out who the local Swiss audit partners/directors are in your location of choice, and whether they have worked on global audits with US partners for US subs of Swiss companies, or as participating firms in global audits of US multinationals with subs located in Switzerland. Once you've figured that out, can you get one or more of those US partners to act as your "sponsor(s)"? I.e. ideally one or more senior US audit partners who are connected on the Swiss side, and can "vouch" for you.

I know you mentioned that formal secondment programs are not an option for you at this time, but I think that this type of "informal" contact could be beneficial. When you email or call or visit the local firm, the endorsement of senior US audit partners can go a long way vs they don't know you from Adam.

In two weeks, I'll celebrate my 10-year anniversary with my firm (always the same employer, but I hopped countries and offices a handful of times!), and throughout my career I have been both on the receiving and on the giving end of such endorsements/information/opinions.

15
I work for a Big4, not audit/tax like some others here and I am one of the seemingly many who transferred from the UK.

Being a part of the firm is merely not enough - I was 'bought' over and sponsored by senior partners who had full intention to turn my secondment into a permanent position.

If you are really serious about moving across, then it's good to first see who within your immediate network has links with people in Swiss firms...it never fails to amaze me how member firms distrust the other's opinion unless it comes from an individual they know/respect.

It is definitely possible, I've helped a few people move over myself - however there are more who really wanted the move, tried to lobby etc. but in the end could not influence the Swiss firm to take the risk.

Also worth keeping in mind, the pressures on Swiss firms to employ Swiss people combined with the relative cost and effort to transfer someone from the US would mean you'd need to be offering something they a) don't have b) really really want.

16
No, not necessarily. I think it depends on the job you are doing. If you are in consulting the specific accounting qualifications are less important. Euro qualifications are mandatory if you are going to sign something, that's when certificates are mandatory.

17
That is correct They also likely don't know about the program that I work under in the US since the PwC's US firm rolled it out about 5 years ago and have been pretty successful (they call it the "Flex Talent Network" - rather than hiring their temporary workers through separate agencies they have decided to hire them through an internal network so they know what they're getting... and are probably paying less). I'd be interested to talk to a Swiss HR rep and put them in touch with my US HR rep to discuss the pros and cons of the program to see if I can convince them that it would be a good idea to try it here... in the US they only had 2 people in the program the first year, now it's several hundred....

Also a good idea to tap into my network and see if one of my US partners knows someone over here...