We are in the process of buying an apartment which needs a lot of renovation including a new kitchen. I've never done this before and my girlfriend has only bought at the lower end of the range in the UK over a decade ago, so we are pretty clueless.
We went and took a look at the Miele showroom today and came away quite impressed. At the moment we have mainly selected near top of the range items, the exception being the dishwasher, which is somewhere in the middle and buying the fridge/freezer from a different brand as Miele don't do an American style (with ice and water dispenser).
We are looking at a washer-dryer as the convenience of dirty clothes becoming clean, dry clothes while we are at work appeals greatly. There's only the two of us, so don't think there will be bandwidth issues and if there is, we can buy a separate dryer later. Ovens will be a normal and a combi-steamer. Double height warming drawer. The hob is induction with downward extraction. Dishwasher will be integrated.
We went to Miele first, because that's where all of our appliances in our rental apartment are, apart from the American fridge/freezer, which is Siemens. We've been very happy with all of them so far. Once I'd priced it all up, using Toppreise.ch, I thought it would be interesting to compare with similar from Siemens and it works out about 1/3 cheaper. For further comparison I added V-Zug in too, although they don't have a directly comparable integrated induction hob/extractor, so I had to spec separately. There isn't a huge amount in it between Miele and V-Zug price wise.
The question is then - Are Miele and V-Zug worth the premium over Siemens and if so why? Bonus points for whether V-Zug is better than Miele or vice-versa. We're comfortable spending the extra if it makes sense and are also happy to mix and match brands where sensible i.e. the ovens and drawer should be the same brand, but the others can differ.
Products and prices below for anyone interested.
TL;DR Are Miele and V-Zug worth the premium over Siemens? If so, why? Is Miele better than V-Zug
don't get a washer drier, get a washer, get a drier. Combined ones are a PITA and break.
It all comes down to costs really, I've never noticed much (any) difference between a 4000chf washing machine and a 300chf washing machine, sure people will tell you the 4000 one will last a life time, but my 300chf lasted 6 years and was replaced with a samsung one with loads of flashing lights, sounds and led panel for 400 chf looks nice and modern, and I can still buy 8 more and be quids in.
if you really want to pose about your washing machine then go for it
* Oh, and no make lasts a life time anyway, plus with the call out charge to fix a v-zug you could buy a new samsung etc
I see your point BB2, but comparing our current dishwasher, fridge/freezer, washer and dryer to the ones in our old apartment, they are all noticeably better.
our old appartment was all v-zug, it was definitely better built, better materials, but it did break, I forget which it was, the washer or the drier, but we didn't have to pay for the repair. don't know how old they where, less then 6 years old. They did end up looking rather dated by the time we left
My belief is that you are really just paying for the name and a slightly sexier appearance when you go for the big names: Miele, Gaggenau, etc.,.. Functionality differences are negligible between the "budget" brands and the "top end" ones.
10 years ago, we put in a Miele fridge/freezer, V-Zug dishwasher and went for the budget BOSCH option for the stove, oven, microwave and warming drawer. No issues with any of them but when they break down, I'll just buy new ones and swap them out myself. Service charges here are ridiculous.
I made the mistake of calling out a service guy to fix an old Schulthess washing machine that needed a new board (~75 CHF part). Total bill was 600 CHFs. It lasted for another year before I scrapped it and got a 500 CHF Samsung. 3+ years on it now with no issues and heavy use. If I can't repair them myself, they are disposable items.
Th Bosch-Siemens Hausgeräte Group is probably big enough to do all themselves, but they have also have different tiers, which is mostly discernible by the brands it self.
You may also have a look what the same https://geizhals.de/ says about the price of certain appliances.
In the end you have to decide, is a dryer for 2k so much better than a dryer for just 600? With ovens and hob you have at least certain noticeable differences like self cleaning coating.
Washing machines and dryer? I use one drying option, and maybe two different washing options.
If you are really keen and can easily afford Miele/V-Zug, then do get them or else you will be always wondering what a top of the range applicance does for its money.
We have a Miele dryer lasted years, no break down ever and is very good.. and a 2010 Miele washing machine in the UK has never had a problem.. but, that said, I do agree with BB2 on washing machines. In CH we have come to the conclusion that a 3/400 CHF washing M. from Conforama with all the bells and whistles is perfect, does the job, and they can be replaced cheaply for a brand new one if needs be.
Make sure, whatever you get, you clean the filters, empty the water out and wash parts thoroughly every 3 months or so, as that can be the main cause of break down and trouble. Nothing worse than calling out an expensive technician for a repair only for them to clean out the inner filters and charge you handsomely for it.
Was very happy with my Siemens for 10 years. Moved to a new place and got top of the line Miele and was very disappointed. Both washer and dryer broke down a few times, is very slow (energy savings bulls**t) and so many functions we never use. Also disappointed with the dishwasher.
Next time I would go for something mid-range in the laundry room, but go for something that also fits my eye in the kitchen.
In anycase, the decision ultimately rests on how much discount your supplier is getting. Not all kitchen builders gets similar discounts from the various brands. Some get 40% on Siemens, others get 40% on V-Zug...
We went for the Miele laundry stuff because that week, FUST had a great offer. We couldn't go wrong with Miele, right...?
Have you priced the various appliances with the installer's discount?
Kitchen firms should be able to get a discount as a matter of course, how much they get from various manufacturers and how much of that they pass on to the buyer varies. But don't be afraid to negotiate hard.
IIRC, we got something like 33% discount on our appliance when buying through the installer, and naive as I was back then to the ways of Swiss trades practices I didn't even negotiate that, they just gave it as a matter of course. Even assuming that the installer's list price was a tad fantastical, we did much better buying that way than buying on our own. Knowing now what I didn't know then I'll push a tad harder next kitchen renovation.
We have a mix of all 3 for different things. Price aside, you hope to get performance, reliability & longevity.
We initially wanted a Miele dishwasher due to feedback from appliance salespeople, family & friends who seemed to universally tout it as the 'gold standard' whatever that might mean. Seemed a good idea then to continue with Miele appliances for fridge, stove, washer/dryer but we changed gear with each one of those for different reasons.
Fridge (No freezer compartment), we went with Siemens since they were cheaper than Miele or other similar brands like Zug, Liebherr etc. and we liked the layout of the interior. Plus, our kitchen specialist recommended it and we visited showrooms from competitors to compare/contrast and 3 years later we're still very happy with the choice. Even so much that we got a freezer from Siemens for our pantry.
The Steam/combo ovens all have similar capabilities and the nice thing about considering Electrolux, Miele, VZug etc. is that they have dinners you can be invited to in order to appreciate how they deliver cooked food. We found it hard to distinguish many differences but went with VZug mainly due to a discount we got when getting the induction hob from them as well. Plus, the mother in law had a VZug for decades and she's a phenomenal cook.
The induction hob was initially going to be Miele but due to the Wok option we wanted the layout didn't work the way we wanted and so we went with VZug which was linked to the oven we already decided on. All of the VZug works like a charm, very happy.
Washer & Dryer were Miele but mainly because we got a great deal at the Comptoir in Lausanne and all of have worked great so far.
We have used miele previously and v-zug when we moved to switzerland in our rented apartment. Based on that, we made a very conscious choice to buy only miele products when we bought our own place. may be its too early to tell, but as of now, we think we have made the right choice. The v-zug fridge was a complete disaster - it used to freeze up if anything touched the back wall. the steamer and oven are comparable, so is the Kochfeld. The miele washing machine has a inbuilt detergent distributor (twin dos) which we like. We did not have a dryer then or now as in both houses we have a drying room with wall mounted dryer (what are they called?). Miele Dishwasher is more spacious with a seperate tray for cutlery. But otherwise performance wise comparable. We bought most stuff either on toppreise or from the lovely kitchen shop which gave us big discount (through our architect).
My one experience of these spawns of the devil almost resulted in divorce proceedings, the compromise ended up being to pay to send our laundry out until I could chuck the useless piece of (insert expletive here) out and replace it with separate units.
Did I mention I abhor these monstrosities?
YMMV. If you've used one before and are happy, then may the Gods of the Laundry Room smile down upon you.
We have everything Siemens in our rental flat. All works well and reliably.
My only complaint is that there is no "skip forwards" button on the washer, if you want to skip the spin for example you have to stop the whole thing at the right time and start a new drain cycle to be able to open the door.
On the Miele I saw, the weight function is surprisingly useful if different cycles (synthetic, wool, cotton) have different load allowances, especially when living with someone who has a tendency to overfill leading to a poor waash!
I think in the mean time most brands have this weight function. Our Siemens from 15 years ago had it. Now with Auto Dos from Miele and whatever the equivalent from Siemens, the machine doses the right amount of washing liquid/powder based on the weight of the clothes you throw in.
My grandmother had a very old V-Zug dishwasher. I tryed to find it on google images but I could not find anything as old as she had. It had big buttons (like 8 in the front for each program).
She told me she had it before I was born (I'm 30 now) and only got rid if it because she had a new kitchen installed last year.
Some 5 years before she needed to replace the filter (some plastic or metal dunno broke) and V-Zug still delieverd short days after and that was impressive for me.
Sometimes it luck that a machine won't break for long long time. But having a good customer-service is very important, and as a Zuger, I would go for the V-Zug
Ours is 2 years old, in a new-build, that's why I thought to mention it! It does seem to be a business version, not a consumer model, that could be the reason.
BIG NOTE - I've checked the Siemens Geschirrspüler SX778D16TE which seems to be 60 Cm, because when you are designing your new kitchen, it is much better ( and cheaper ) to get the Euro standard width for your appliances 60 Cm, rather than the Swiss 'special' width of 55 Cm !!!
V-Zug we are looking at the top end, so would expect this to be their own stuff. I knew about the Siemens/Neff/Bosch thing and again was mainly looking at the top end Siemens
We're talking CHF 5-6k difference over all of the appliances. That doesn't go very far with my taste in cars and I look at it as an investment in releasing more car funds: Happy girlfriend = less car buying complaints.
Prices are from Toppreise. We don't meet with the kitchen designer until next month. Just trying to get ahead of the game, but if he can't match publicly available prices on appliances, we'll be going elsewhere! The Toppreise discounts for the Miele equipment are averaging at 30% from list. I haven't written down the list numbers for Siemens and V-Zug.
I remember as a kid in the 90s my mother hating hers, but my girlfriend has had good experiences with them in the 2000s. I'm torn between the obvious downsides and the ease of the whole washing and drying cycling completing while we are at work.