I work as a development engineer for almost 3 years in the same company and I've done a very good job in this time. I have started the new generation of devices, creating whole new concepts, that noone believed they would work. (electronic components).
At the beginning (for 1.5 years) it was good. The problem came later with my direct boss (project leader) and a colleage (his friend) started making my life impossible because of the success: reasigning my project (with all the hard work done) to other engineers and giving me a new one. Or sending the team to some special trainings except me... and saying there's no budget...
With this perspective I had to speak calmly with the manager and he seemed to supported me. He knows the good works I've done; but after this interview nothing changed... so I've started to look for a new position and leave the company, but at this moment I am with a new development that I've started myself and they won't like at all if I go. They couldn't finish it.... and they could write a bad certificate as revenge..... I hate these certificates. I am sure that guy will try to me.
What would you do??? This ing company is making me sick. In fact I had to go to the doctor because of the stress...
Speak to a) your boss, b) your next-level manager and c) possibly even your colleague. Or all three together. If that doesn't help/change anything/lead anywhere: look for a new job. If you find one: quit. And about the Arbeitszeugnis/reference: why don't you cross that bridge when you come to it. Why worry about something that needs zero worrying at the moment.
Also, quoting myself from another thread (four threads down):
As you can see, if push comes to shove, you can go back and have a bad letter changed. A former colleague one desk over was forced once to have a letter re-issued for an employee that was fired (literally fired, i.e. not terminated) from our company three (!) times over the span of a few years (don't ask how that was possible, long story), because she happily quoted the legal regulations about reference letters, completely oblivious to the fact that she was an absolutely awful employee. It worked and even though she was utter sh*, she got a good letter in the end. So if you did a good job, I wouldn't worry for a single second about the reference letter, not only because you seem to have a good relationship with your next-level manager/boss, but also because it's losing in importance anyway.
You are totally right. I shouldn't be worrying about this for now, and the relationship with the manager is excellent. In fact he always defends me in the meetings when the other asshole wants war, the project leader doesn't do this publicly in meetings. He has two faces, when the manager is there and when he is gone. He sees me as a threat........... I am much bether than him.
I tried to talk with the "bad guys" but it looks like they feel free to continue, so I forget this way... the manager is too soft and will avoid any discussions.
I will concentrate in the search for the new job. They will have problems with the projects I started, because they don't understand them so good as I do.
I am way too much motivated even with this shitty atmosphere, because I love the job.
Other point is that I have 4 months Kündigungsfrist. If I quit this month I will have to stay until christmas... fck
I truly believe that such a stressful and high anxiety workplace is toxic for your health. If you've really tried to sit down and have meaningful conversations with these people and it hasn't bettered, then it is time to switch jobs.
With your success in the company and innovative skills, you should be able to find work here with no problem.
Even looking for work and committing to yourself that you are going to search for a better environment, should already make you start feeling better - just know the next time he's an a**, you can think, "who cares, I'm leaving soon!"
And your manager should be ashamed that he allows this to go on in his workplace, while he notices it...
Yes, exactly, that's what I thought, but I am very spezialised and it's not so easy. Anyway I am on it with the headhunter and I hope to find the new job soon.
In the last months I am feeling extremely tired and a little with mental fog. I had to go to the doctor to get checked but everything is ok.
Your doctor could sign you off work for a few weeks for stress. That's what happened to me when I was having management trouble quite a few years ago. I ended up writing my own reference and my boss forced to sign it by HR.
I never seemed to understand why an employee having problems with his boss should talk to him and explain the situation and try to solve the problem. if the boss is bad, he will stay bad no matter how much amount of talking you do about your problems. on the other hand, if an employer has a problem with an employee, they simply take the route of firing the employee. why the employee should take all the effort to explain and convince the bosses before deciding to leave? Life is too short to work with bad bosses and if you have a choice, you should immediately leave. And who is responsible if the employee falls sick due to stress?
the whole situation seems to be biased towards employers. even at the time of leaving, the employee is advised to put the blame on himself/herself that they are not able to cope with the job and hence leaving without blaming the actual person(s) that caused the exit. all this for what, a good reference letter?
The situation about who needs who keeps changing during the working relationship and employers fire employees as soon as they don't need the employee (budget cuts etc, reorganization etc). similarly the employee should quit as soon as he does not need the employer and has a choice to switch jobs to make his life better.
Employers here question why some people changed jobs so often but they never think how bad the employers were that made the employee change jobs so many times. surely if everything was ok, nobody would want to change jobs although a few do it for money and this definitely should not be viewed in a good manner.
in this case, my advise to the OP would be to assess it carefully if the job is really causing a lot of stress and he sees no chances of improvement, then it is better to quit as soon as he found another job. no need to stress out about talking and convincing his bad boss to change his ways.that may lead to another stressful situation where the boss will confront that he is doing everything right and it is the OP who is at fault.
Sometimes a simple misunderstanding can lead to things like this. Why not - as an adult - talk to the person first? OP mentioned the relationship to his manager is excellent.
Oh and don ́t forget that leaving is not always easy, it depends on your skills, age and also very importantly on your permit (if you are non EU).
It's called misunderstandings, different expectations, lack of proper communication and so on. I realize it's easy to always "blame it on the boss", but often employees are just as sh*. Not saying that is the case here, but you simply only see one side of the story, so how would you know? Sure one can run away from everything the second there is an issue and blame it on others. Or one can take the high road, try to find a solution, be open and transparent, talk it out, see what the issue is and if nothing changes, THEN they can move on.
To each their own. I've had plenty of problems in the workplace. Sometimes they could be fixed, sometimes not.
And as roegner says, sometimes you have a very specialized job with few alternative options around, have life circumstances that require a certain degree of stability/security, or actually simply enjoy what you do and don't want people to mess it up for them. Not everyone can just "leave immediately" as they plese just because there's a bit of an issue with someone.
I think that is the best policy. They must provide one if you ask for it. If they are happy with you, they will provide an acceptable one. If they are unhappy with you it may or may not be acceptable.
If they subsequently fire you you can quite reasonably point to the zwischenzeugnis and say "look how long it took between asking for the zwischenzeugnis, and the dismissal".
As Phos suggested, your situation is where a Zwischenzeugnis is very handy. These are very important in so far as interm references, they're given while you are still in the company with no official intention to leave or have to serve out your notice period. A Zwischenzeugnis can also be a handy way of shooting across their bow that you may be looking around for another job (which in turn could result in them taking your concerns more seriously).
This means that if you really are so valuable, they'll tend to give you a good one to keep you sweet - after all, they still need you to do a handover if you leave or finish some essential work and a bad reference means you have nothing to lose if you simply do nothing at your desk. Seeking an Arbeitszeugnis only at the end means you're at their mercy, as you no longer have any leverage.
The trick is getting one when or just before your notice period begins. This means that when you get your final reference three months later, they will find it very difficult to justify changing anything other than the tense of your final Arbeitszeugnis without exposing themselves to a World of legal action as any dis-improvement in performance would have had to have taken place in that small window at the end - the rest of your tenure is covered by the Zwischenzeugnis .
Note, employers are not stupid and they'll probably guess what you're up to, so while it's difficult enough to get them to write a reference at the best of times, they'll have added incentive to drag their feet if they suspect it'll give you leverage. So after you've requested one, keep the pressure up to actually get one and one you're happy with.
I believe they are required to give one to you upon request. I would request it from HR instead of your line of management. HR will then keep them honest in getting your Zwishenzeugnis in a timely manner.
There is an art to writing and reading a Zwischenzeugnis. Little comments and wordings have deep implications.
At some point afterwards, I would be more forthcoming with your organization on the troubles you are encountering. Make sure you document every issue to avoid a "he said she said" issue, then lay it out on the table, and see if you can agree on how you continue your employment. It may just be a case of an attitude adjustment from one side or another.
In theory, and perhaps even legally. In reality, I've known more than one person who was still waiting for theirs six months after requesting it. You have to chase it up at the end of the day.
I see yours and Roegner's point. but if the boss is bad, does a discussion with him about the pain points not lead to the suspicion that you may leave and thus the boss makes your life even more difficult. from this moment onwards, the boss will try to bad mouth you in front of senior management until you leave and make it more difficult for you.in reality, the employee may simply be trying to sort out his problems. in my opinion, bosses hardly listen to what their employees feel. they just want to get the work done.
as dumping the employees has become more common in the last 2 years, it has become a norm that there will be no replacements for employees fired and the employers somehow get this done by existing workforce. this causes great stress and how much amount of convincing you do, this will not change. do you think the bosses don't know this and will change if one of their employee complains of more work?
I never suggested to OP to leave immediately (certainly not if it puts his permit in danger), I said to leave if he has a choice. when you have a choice, why should you waste your time to go and correct your boss? one would be foolish to think that you can change somebody's opinion by having a talk. that's the whole point, I was trying to make.
but again it depends how mature the boss is. if he is understanding and listening, there is no harm to discuss problems and solve them rather than leaving.
One place I worked at actually generated a new one every year as part of the performance review process. We didn't have much turnover, and on the whole it was a pretty good place to work.