Just reading some of these posts; I'm not sure I agree with all of them.
Where I work, yes you do get some people who bury their heads in the sand; but by and large people do take ownership and make sure things keep running.
What I do encounter is you don't get a lot in the way of lateral thinking or innovation when it comes to problem solving; though this may be a function of working at a large company rather than anything to do with nationality.
I am naturally lazy in that I will always try to find the most efficient way of completing a task so I can have a coffee break quicker. For example I will spend time writing a shell or Perl script to do something lengthy and repetitive - so next time the same or similar task comes around I have a bit of code that will do it with little or no adaptation.
I won't complain because I live here, but I will just give the facts. I've worked in Germany, Switzerland and France and far and away I would say that the Swiss really are the least hard-working & most bureaucratic of all.
The idea that being clean, keeping quiet, arriving early, bringing in the Gipfeli twice a year and generally maintaining a tidy desk makes a good worker is appalling, but I have seen used those techniques to helped my contracting rate go up, regardless of my professional abilities.
I don't find the Swiss exactly lazy, but just often confusing actual competence with being tidy.
On the other hand, if it fools the Swiss management, then I as a reasonably paid hired foriegner will be happy to pick up the low tax dosh.
nick, i don't agree with lack of innovation on the side of the swiss folks. they invented "the hanging cardigan" or "hängende pulli". i observed that the girl sharing my office allways have had this second hand woollen cardigan hanging on the back of her chair, but she never ever wore it. the function was to make less evident that she was'nt there when she decided to takes a day "off". isn't that innovation? in fürther companies there was always somebody using this technic.
I've found that this varies a lot depending upon the size of the company. I've worked at 7 different companies here (the joy of contracting!) from one of the large banks to a firm with only 27 employees. At the bank there was the same culture that many of the earlier posters mentioned; no one making decisions, a few people on the project carrying the rest of the workers and management by email if at all. The smaller companies are a totally different story. My Swiss co-workers in this environment work just as hard as any other nationality and decisions are made in a timely fashion. All in all the smaller companies are much better to work for.
Hold on a sec folks, Are the Swiss lazy? I'd really resent such a blanket view as some of my good friends are anything but lazy.
I have worked here with some very lazy people and also some of the most motivated, innovative, hardworking people I have come across.
I worked in Ireland previously. Are the Irish lazy? Yes, some are, but also I worked amoung some really driven people.
I worked in England prior to that, same story.
Some people do leave in the time of crisis just because it's 5 o'clock, and it can make your blood boil, but I look at it another way.
You are contracted to do 42 hours (give or take) a week. If you are consistently required or feel the need to do far more than that (which i suspect is the case for most) then there is a staffing problem.
I have lived here less than 2 years but my observation is that the Swiss have strong family values, and generally like to spend time getting the foundations right to ensure that life is easier in the future. They have agreed to work 42 hours and so that is what they will work. It's kinda strange that people take it for given that they should constantly work 60 hours + a week when their employer has drawn a contract saying that they should work 42.
I very much agree with the small company v large company work ethic and I think that this is the same wherever you are. I've worked for many small firms in the UK and it felt almost like being part of a family rather than a company. No bureaucracy and everyone had a direct line through to the boss. I've also worked in large companies both in the UK and here and this is the comparison that I am using (apples to apples).
As for the Swiss having strong family values, I would have to disagree on this point as this is far from my experience. Wanting to be away from the office is not the same as wanting to be with the family. It also doesn't explain why there is a general unwillingness to take responsibility or ownership.
I can understand it from the family point of view. If they have worked their quota of hours, and done their job properly, then I don ́t see why they should stay on at work just to prove that they are the "model" employee. Some employees are known to work long hours in the week so that they can come home early on Fridays just to have family time.
Maybe, it is just that they are very good at their job and are very effective with time planning. I mean, I have seen it from from my husband ́s experience that just because some employees are up at the office at all hours, does not prove that they are doing their job effectively. It can also be the total opposite!
He even says that because of the laws in Germany (dunno about Switzerland though), it makes it very very hard to "sack" a bad employee - it can take years of court cases and so on to get rid of them, most employees tend to take on this mentality that they are "irreplacable" and therefore tend become lazy and complacent in their workplace.
in order to arrive to a generalisation i've spent 15 years working day by day with locals, i don't perceived lazyness in the first 3 or 4 years, i though more of individual behaviour as the years passed by i adverted that the image i've had from the swiss was not real. in the other hand i think that the one sector were the swiss excels is handcraft, i really believe that swiss dudes are really gifted to make repetitive tasks like manufacturing watches or working with wood, that kind of stuff. they even work very good and fast, possibly because they know what they do. but more abstract work like planing, organising or charging cooperative tasks is definitely out of their range, they are just lost; because to be able to do those things overview is required. and precisely that is what the swiss lacks of. perhaps because of the alps blocking their horizon? who knows...
I used to work for one of the larger banks and of 2 of the larger divisions as one was staffed mostly by Swiss people and the other predominantly English or Americans.
The "Swiss" division had a reputation as being very slow, whereas the other definately delivered projects more quickly. In actual fact although they were perceived to be slower the "Swiss" division would deliver a completed project, with few errors, often before the "US and UK" division had ironed out all the faults in the project they delivered some time ago.
In short the "Swiss" division were excellent at planning, but not as quick to respond to quick changes.
I think a few people on here will know what bank i am talking about and which divisions.
cleaning balcony bases and undecided? you are getting adapted very fast to the swiss way of life cheers! and no, i'm not TTT alter ego. jRUM unwind...and have fun
heheheh you got me there my friend. Seriously though I am the most non-Swiss and chilled out friendly guy you will find even though it might not seem like that online :-)
Somehow I can not believe... I do cooperate with Swiss company due to my work abroad and as their partner, they are sharply at work at 8 am, with break for lunch from 12-13, and then if anything needed I can catch them up to 4-5:30 pm at any day per week... some guys work up to 7-8 pm anyway there and try to do whatever I do need them to do if its a problem that has to be solved immediatelly... so somehow I do not think that Swiss are lazy workers... as far as I know few of them who I am in touch everyday with...
That is true... but you have to know how to work it out with them Swiss are amazed by perfect preparation ... if you give them enough details and the way how to put the solution into work they may try to avoid it and say its impossible and that they have never done it that way but at the end after some thinking they can accept that you were right and it can work the way you offered... what you have to show them is the way... it has happend to me few times and so I think it just depends upon people and how hard they try to fight for their truth
silvie, compared to many other countries in the world, management is very often staffed with apprenticeship absolvents that have been taught ONE way to do their job and as norm they want to do it ALWAYS the same, even though what they've learnt appears to be obsolet or unlikely to solve a given problem. that's why i figure out they fear innovation: absence of criteria. i generalise, of course i stumbled upon exceptions!
The people I work with are incredibly hard workers. But they do usually have the weekend off, which is clearly viewed as lazy in countries like the US. Me, I think it's just sensible to have free time after working hard.
And being five minutes late is a criminal offence...
The people whom I observe arriving at eleven and leaving at four are certainly not Swiss.
I was born here and have worked for several companies during my career.
The way I see it, some Swiss are perceived to be lazy because in some companies there's simply no incentive to work hard. If hard work isn't honored (by means of financial bonuses, promotions etc.), why would you want to work long hours? Now, that's more of a management issue (and lots of managers in Swiss companies were brought in from the States and from Britain) than a general phenomenon. In companies that honor hard work and innovation, both of these can be found. And that's not just true for Switzerland.
Also, it's relatively easy to understand why many immigrants perceive the Swiss as being lazy - because you're foreigners in this country, you're simply inclined to work harder than your Swiss co-workers. It's a natural thing that one doesn't want to stand out in a negative way when one lives in a foreign surrounding.
I'm just glad to see that all of you in here obviously are exceptionally hard working people. But if you got an issue with your co-workers' leaving too early, why don't you tell them?
Exceptions are welcomed .. I hope there will be more of them as I have really met very nice people there and so far plan to land in CH myself soon.
You might be right about that one way doing the job but then its a problem of giving the job to such inexperienced people... and not sending them abroad and giving them options of wider view.. getting them trained properly in management abroad as well...
its not the problem of Swissies only... wherever in the world you can find a person who will want to do the solutions the way he/she was taught - again I guess the right words are experience and knowledge... I do it in my job as well ... the difference is when you, except being taught something, can use that something in reality where it can help... or when you can accept others people advise and be able to say ok it can work or it wont...
Swissies according to what I know are not so affraid of innovation but they are rather careful and like to take the decisions later after lots of thinking... and after finding out if there is really not any other way left to do it... I think i would call it perfectionism in some matters.. although then the inovation e.g. of products can take up to 3 years as in our case on the other hand.. the quality after all is amazing
Kittster, I do agree with you in the matter of importance of weekends off... If you work hard for 8-11 hours 5 days in a week, then you need your time for yourself and family life too... You need to relax and refresh..
No one who works 16 hours per day can work with the same efficiency whole year or even further... every one needs their rest.
Few weekends of work although it can be at home.. it makes you occupied by work matters all the time in a week and its of no good. I have tried it myself and after few 7days-working weeks of hard work this Friday I ended up at home with sick-leave from my doctor and note that I have to take rest from my job at least for few days... So that I could be back at work fresh and be able to perform well and efficiently at work... (my boss forbid me to take the papers to make them at home at least )
BTW, here I dont want to point out that I would be an extremely hard working person.. the reason was that we just had too much work, comming deadlines and almost no one who could do that
a swiss friend aware of the traditional swiss fear of the new, told me once: "if god would be swiss, he would still be waiting for the right moment to create the universe". very sharp ;-)
well i don't know about how lazy swiss workers are as i can't get a job but i would put up with anything to find a job even a cesspit worker so think yourselves lucky that you even have one and kiss and make up. life is too short for petty squabbles. oh and anyone got a job doing anything? ps by the way are you all writing this from work? peace and love. billy