I've posted this on a UK cycling forum as well, but am hoping to get some more Swiss-relevant advice from the experienced riders here.
I'm only a beginner, but the price of MTBs here seems ludicrous to me (2000CHFs and up!). So on a recent trip across the border I had a look in Decathlon (Annemasse) and their bikes seemed far more reasonable value for money. At the moment they are selling off their 2008 models and with the beautiful weather my wife and I would like to buy now to get out into the sunshine. My problem is that my French is not good enough to understand the buying advice offered by the staff in Decathlon.
There are 2 options: the 2008 Rockrider 8.1 hardtail is 549 Euros and the Rockrider 9.1 full suss is 749 Euros. As I'm completely new to MTB riding I'm unsure if I need to/should go for the more expensive 9.1, thinking that in the long run it will be better value for money with the full suss(have to admit I'm a sucker for what seems like a bigger saving!). Below are the specs of the 2 bikes:
I'm 6'2", 75kg, inside leg 32/33" (in Decathlon the guy said that means I should take size XL but that left only about 1" clearance so I'm not sure if size L would be better....with no experience I'm not sure what to look for). The bike will be used for cruising round the lakes here as well as getting into the hills and mountains around us . Initially I don't think I'll be doing anything too heavy, but would like to have a bike that gives me the possibilty to expand later (into the ski resort trails etc) without it being overkill.
Hope that all makes sense and really appreciate your insights!
It's like anything, you get what you pay for. The two bikes you linked from Decathlon seem to be ok entry level bikes. The components are similar to what you would get on any bike in a similar category, but who knows about the quality of the frames.
I would say either would be ok for an introduction to the sport and to cope with most day rides. They would both probably be good bikes for you to get into the sport and decide if you like it. At that point you may find more specific requirements for a bike and want to get a bike more suitable to what you want to do the most.
Oh... look around at quite a few shops. Many have pretty good deals on last years bikes around now.
I've always been one for a reasonable prices bike from a good brand.
Usually the tech trickles down from the top models, and finds its way to the more affordable bikes before long anyway. So I would say - why not a middle range bike from a well known manufacturer?
Examples of such would be the Specialized Pitch Pro - which got very good ratings, or something from Santa Cruz, Giant or Kona wouldn't be bad.
I bought high end (Specialized Epic) and have been very happy with it, i'm about to do the same again (Intense Tracer VP).
In the end if you buy from a known manufacturer and want to sell (if for some reason you don't take to biking - which given the great trails here would be suprising), that's would be a viable option.
Buying from the big department stores (e.g., Decathlon) can get you a decent bike for a lower price than a similarly-equipped bike from a local bike store. Unfortunately, the after-sales service that you get is likely to be pretty minimal, and there is always a risk with the department store bikes that they are not assembled very well (the low-wage employees there are not always so skilled).
If you get something from a local bike shop, then they will be pleased to help you out with adjustments or advice further down the road, the value of which could be very large (e.g., switching the seat to something that suits you more at no cost, one week after you bought the bike, etc.)
Also, as Eire mentioned, the components might all be decent quality, but it is difficult to know the quality of the frame they are using, and they may slide in some other cheaper parts that are not so salient to keep the price down (e.g., heavy bars, stem, and seatpost). A name brand bike is less likely to do this, and you are likely to get similar quality components throughout the whole bike.
Lastly, I would be wary of going for full suspension. They tend to be quite a bit heavier than hardtail bikes, and can be significantly less efficient at power transfer (particularly at the lower end of the price scale). If you're going to use and need the full suspension, then go for it, but if a lot of your riding is likely to be on roads and not-so-intense trails then a hardtail bike (front suspension only) will be completely sufficient, and will be more lively to pedal than the full-sus' rig. Don't just get the full-sus' because it looks cooler and tougher, only buy it if you think you'll use it.
As mentioned above, before decided to buy my bike I went thru all selection of various bikes from racing, commuting, hybrid and MTB's including full-suspension and hardtail from renown manufacturers e.g. Scott, Trek, Specialized, Wheeler just to name a few and both local makes and imported. I tried to ride over 30 different bicycles. I collected kilograms of flyers, catalogues and price lists. What I always heard from experts is that the high end bikes especially imported ones are overpriced here in Switzerland but sometimes you can come across good deals.
Initially I was very much into full-suspension downhill bikes that cost at least CHF2000 entry level quality ones. After riding them soon I realized that they do not work for me on the street and probably the price is overkill for what I want to use a bike. The full-suss is great but somehow absorbs all the energy on the flat surface. You can lock it but again size of the wheels and speed I could ride at was an issue and I didnt fell comfortable. Then I tried hard tail bikes a bit better but still they're not my thing. Eventually I ended up with hybrid commuting bike that gave me a comfort of riding and I could also go to the forest and do some hills. Obviously it is personal choice what to buy and for what purpose but for entry level rider like myself I started with new bike price range CHF1000 and I try to exploit it optimally before I know what I will exactely need in the future.
I have been thru lots of large bike stores e.g. Athelticum and Migros Sports XX and although the prices were apparently lower but someone adviced me to go to the smaller shop because not only initial price plays a role but a service afterwards is a very important factor in choosing one store over the other. Eventually I ended up in a small bike shop and although the price that I have paid compare to the same bike from Germany is higher but the service was excellent. Also given the fact that I spoke some German I got lots of additional tips resulting in better customer satisfaction. Next time around I will come for first inspection and he will service a bike just in the shop round the corner from where I live
We bought last summer an Athleticum bike and it's very good. Includes a first service. Both wheel with disc breaks and frame is Aluminum. It's advertised as MTB Climber 3.0 for 999Chf though it's sometimes on sale for 899Chf or you get 10% off if you sign up for a card at Athleticum.
BTW jacek, I have a set of off-road knobly tyres on the size 700x35c that would fit your bike, so you could put them on when you want to go mostly off-road. You can have them when you like.
Thanks mate, I am still peering with an awe at my original tyres how smoothly they're wearing out especially when I slam on the brakes going downhill from Obersiggenthal
Having (briefly) looked at Specialized, Giant, Trek, KTM etc MTBs, I can safely say that I would love to buy one of those .
The problem is that even the entry level bikes I've looked at are well over 1000CHF, if not 1500. You make a good point about potential resale value, but at the same time I find it hard to justify doubling the cost of the bike right at the outset (550 Euros vs 1500CHF). There is of course the strong chance that I haven't been looking in the right places though! If anyone can recommend somewhere to find a good model from one of the well-known/"big" brands for 1000CHF then I'd certainly look into that keenly...
Thanks for your input. The comments about the value of good after-sales service from the local bike shops are coming out again and again, so I'll certainly take them on board.
I especially appreciate your statement about the actual "need" for full suss. I'm one of those who is tempted by the cool/tough factor, but the logic says that I won't use it to the full and so I'll be going for a hardtail.
most points raised are valid, being and avid rider in the past hopefully these key points will help. 1. comfort - 1" clearance is the recommended amount ( or two fingers), this is so went riding you use a fairly optimal range of your legs and the motion is effecient. Most beginners quickly learn to hold the bike on a angle and or stand off the seat while stationary, 2. type of riding - beginners rarely if ever decide to do 2m drops or rocky terrain, so double sus is not needed, and as someone said earlier, you lose power through the rear shock. 3. riding crowd - who are you riding with, my other half was excited about riding got the same bike as me, we both got suited up gloves helmets, looking back it was probably a bit of a waste, as keen as she was i dont think she would ever do mountain trails, apart from the well worn rather smooth touristy ones which little to no sus is needed. if mainly road riding not even front sus is need its more comfort without losing power. 4. Brands - the thing with brands is quality is normally better. But a closer inspection of welds, sus, crank, brake and gearing (derailer) set up will show quality, looks past the colours and if it looks good it normally is. 5. Frame construction: most mountain bikes have a strength rating they must past, and would be made out of a alloy steel rather then aluminium which is used more for road racing bikes, alloys are stronger and alu more expensive but light. (this is for general public biking, the pros used more exotic and more expensive materials such as titanium, magnesium alloys & even carbon fibre, which i wont bother going into) Any way cheaper bikes will normally be heavier (all other things being equal) as alloys are more expensive then normal steel. so dont buy a bike you cant lift relatively easily. personally if i was a beginner (sorry if i assumed this incorrectly) i would go the hard tail.
It's a good site, has a lot of bikes and if you're lucky you can pick up some nice bargains. Tonight I found a Bionicon Edison on there which is a very respectible bike for 1800 CHF.
Maybe worth a thought, there's always chain reaction cycles www.chainreactioncycles.com where I had my tracer VP built, if you contact them, ask for Trev he'll look after you.
Anyway, if you've managed to get something, then i wish you happy trails
Hmm. 150mm travel for a beginner's bike does not seem right to me, neither does it appear as a good description for an allrounder bike. While it might be a very decent bike, I'd imagine it would be quite heavy, and may lead to development of bad trail habits. I think I am much more with the "first bike should be a hardtail" crowd, or a light full-suspension.
However, I would double you on trying to spot a used bike at velomarkt or ricardo. Many people here buy extremely nice bikes, and ride them twice a year. Four years later they figure out that they do not need the bike, and sell it out for third the retail price.
It may be a little risky for a beginner, but if you would have a friend who has a bit of an idea to figure out if the drive train is not worn out, hubs and suspension are ok, I would certainly go for second-hand. By the way, on the veloboerse events in Zurich (advertisements for the dates and locations are on about every lightpole), some very decent MTBs show up relatively often. I bought an FS bike for my wife there for about 1/4 the price, which did not require any cash injections so far in 3 years, and bought my bike off ricardo, which, even though it needed some cash after 1Kkm of abuse, is still within about 1/3 the retail altogether.
I was actually trawling around for a decent all mountain, found the Edison as more of an example of what's available TBH.
The Bionicon's generally do have a lot of travel, but from the reviews i've read on them they really aren't overly heavy for what they offer.
However maybe you're right - for a beginner beginner, maybe it's a little too much. Point taken. However I don't buy into the hardtail for beginnners argument, but a nice XC fully I feel would be perfect.
I jumped onto a Specialized Epic to get myself back into this, which was the perfect bike at the time, before my recent upgrade.
Bionicons are quite nice but maybe a bit maintenence intensive for a newcomer to the sport. They were quite light for the travel they offered a few years back but know you can get 180-190mm travel bikes weighing in at around 14kg. I'm not sure how much I would fancy a secondhand bionicon though. Their proprietry suspension and wierd hydraulic geometry changing system may be a bit of a problem when something goes wrong with a preloved/abused bike.
I also don't think a hardtail is neccesarily a bad idea. If you want to do some real trail riding then fair enough a fully may be better, but most of the trails in the Zurich area are totally rideable on an XC fully. Uetliberg is totally doable by an adventurous beginner on an XC hardtail. The Tuesday night rides are proof of this.
Also there are hardtail trailbikes out there too. One of the guys I ride with regularly and is usually on the Tuesday rides too takes a relaxed angled hardtail on nearly everything we ride, including bike parks.
In my opinion the best bet if you can afford it for an a beginner is something like a Specialised Stumpjumper or Trek Fuel EX (or similar). If these kind of bikes are a bit out of budget then a cheaper hardtail will at least get you decent components and can still be ridden on everything.
At the end of the day its not about the bike... its about getting out there and riding it regardless of what it is.
Having bought a decathlon road bike 3 years ago plus plenty of othere stuff from them I would say they represent excellent value as the specs are (almost) always good and their range of level is good. Service is not quite so good and I would recommend that you speak a reasonable level of French as Mulhouse store staff rarely speak any english.