We are in the process of deciding on what car to purchase. We are going to be living in the Vaud area of Switzerland. We are a family of 5 and will be having family/guests on a regular visit, therefore want to purchase a car/van that can seat 7 people. I presently drive a 2002 Toyota Sienna minivan which I love, with the exception of the Front Wheel Drive - it is terrible for driving in snowy conditions!
How important would a car with AWD be for the Vaud area? Right now we are considering the following cars...
1. Volvo XC90 - has AWD and is on the more compact side of car size
2. Renault Grand Espace - don't think it has AWD - having a hard time determining that off their website. Also, will it be a good resale value in 3 years?
3. VW Sharan - don't think it has AWD - again, can't tell off website.
The Mercedes and Toyota Sienna seem like they will be too big when looking at length. The BMW doesn't seem like it will be a practical/comfortable 7 seater. The Audi is too big. Any other cars you can suggest we might want to consider?
First things first, a front wheel drive car is not bad on snow and ice. It is certainly far better than a rear wheel drive car. I've driven for nearly 9 Swiss winters with a front wheel drive going to the mountains most weekends during winter and in that time only ever had to use chains twice. I have always had good winter tyres when required though.
Last year I went for a 4x4 car. It is better at getting up snowy roads than a front wheel drive, but unless you do a lot of snow driving it's not that necessary. In conditions where you might normally have to use chains going uphill the 4x4 comes into it's own. It will last a lot longer without having to put chains on. (Remember only actually had to use chains 2 times with FWD in 9 years!)
Now the downside to 4x4. It is only of any use when there is power going to the wheels. It is USELESS when going downhill unless you are actually driving off the brakes. It is also useless on the flat if you come into a corner too fast and lift off the accelerator. If you have no power going to the wheels and you try to go around a sharp corner on snow or ice the car will understeer, perhaps even worse than on a FWD car!
4x4 is not a magic button that allows your car to defy the laws of physics. It is a handy tool to help get you up to inaccessible places in winter when a FWD car will struggle or require chains.
I'm not saying 4x4 is bad, I'm very happy with mine, but what I am saying is don't overestimate what it is capable of doing. It may well get you up to a ski resort to have you suddenly realise it's all but useless getting back down again.
Meh, I have a small front-wheel-drive car and I've never had any problems. In fact I reckon having a small light car is a huge advantage in the snow.
I've got chains in the boot in case things get really icey.
Plus, I recommend manual over automatic because sometimes you need the sensitive control that only manual will give you (hill start on an icy road anyone?)
Having said all that, I secretly wish I'd bought a nice 4wd estate wagon.
Thanks so much for the replies. I think the Renault G.Espace is now out of contention.
After looking at the links provided (thanks again!), the list now includes the following...
1. Volvo XC90
2. Land Rover Discovery
3. Chevrolet Captiva
4. Peugeot 4007
5. VW Sharan
The Volvo is still probably #1 on the list, but I am also interested in finding out more on the others. It's so hard to glean information off the websites of the respective car manufacters.
Another point to keep in mind since you are currently living in the USA. More than likely you are using " all season tires " (I like to call them "no season tires") in the winter. The performance in snow and on ice is limited at best.
Here in CH, everyone has a set of true summer and true winter tires. Already this change will make a real/hugh difference in driving performance if you put them on a typical front wheel drive vehicle.
The 4x4 option is really only necessary if you are going up to the mountains every weekend during the winter. Yes, you will avoid the odd time when you might be required by law to put the chains on a 2 wheel drive vehicle. For info, the police post the chains sign at the side of the road where you must have either a 4x4 to pass or put the chains on.
I would focus on the 80% of driving conditions in choosing the best vehicle for your needs.
I go to these guys who are located on the west side of Lausanne (depending on where in VD you will be located). They also speak some English (if you are talking tires )
The following link (same as I gave in my reply above), gives the available alternatives. If you click on the name of each individual model you're considering, it will reveal more (but not overly detailed) info.
Although any costs given are in GBP(£), you can still use for approx. comparative purposes.
You can also Google each model and see what comes up other than the manufacturers site; or Google "car reviews", and look for auto based consumer magazine reviews (my search criteria is set to list many UK based sites, which I'm familiar with). You may wish to check out reviews closer to your present location, that you know.
in winter (or temperatures below 7°C) a 2-wheel drive car with real winter tyres (with enough profile on it) fitted is always better than a 4x4 with lousy old summer tyres. but 4x4 never replaces driving experience.
... i totally forgot the landrover disco (as smackerjack mentioned). you get a comfortable car, a proper 4x4 (not like blingbling 4x4's, young overpaid footballers are driving), and space.
My problem with 2wd has been stopping and turning (areas where 4x4 doesn't help). Rarely a problem with accelerating.
4x4 gets you:
Higher acquisition cost. Higher fuel cost due to extra weight. Higher insurance cost. Possibly higher maintenance cost. Reduced performance due to extra weight. Reduced handling due to extra weight. Potentially higher accident repair costs. There are a few exceptional cases where I'd say to go for a 4x4 but in most cases I'd advise against it. This is coming from a former 4x4 owner, BTW.
I love this forum!! You guys are the best! Regarding where we plan to live, we are considering both St. Legier (above Vevey) and Pully (above train lines).
I agree to a point, but living lakeside in Nyon I've had a few problems with my (large) rear-wheel drive car, even with winter tyres on. Sure it's not as regular as the mountainside villages, but a problem all the same. My wife's Honda CRV has had no issues whatsoever, even with all-season tyres on.
I never had a problem with my non-AWD Mini in Vaud. But it's true it depends very much on what kind of driving you will doing & how far up you live, how steep is your street.
Wait til you get here and find a place to live before you decide.
As Smackerjack says - depends on WHERE in Vaud! Whether by the Lake, at the foot of the Jura, the plains of the Gros de Vaud or the top of the Jura?!
We are at the top bit near 1000m, so a 4x4 with snowtyres is essential. But if you live down in the plains, any decent front wheel drive with good snowtyres is fine.
I live in Vaud and only last year did a lot of research on cars as we purchased a new one, from a woman's point of view i would go with a 4x4 I test drove the following
Volvo XC 90
BMW X5
Audi Q7 & Q5
All nice cars but after test driving them and taking them to the very very small car parks in Lausanne found them all very hard to park except for the Q5(which would be to small for you)
I actually ended up with the Audi A3 and am very happy with it, however I am looking forward to the new RS3.
However as you need a big car go for the Volvo XC 90.... good luck,