Be Warned... eBay & Paypal Support Fraudulent Activity

Finance, Taxes, Banking, Insurance and Retirement
21
Like I said, I don't want to get into too many details. But, it is clearly fraud, and I am the victim here.

Here is the REST of the story:

-Person A utilized Person B eBay account to win the auction.

-Person A utilized same Person B Paypal account to pay for item.

-Person A asked me (prior to winning the bid) for shipment to other address, I agreed with prepayment (thought once I had the money, no problem, ha!).

-Person B claims fraud at Paypal. My cash is suspended.

-Paypal types (black on white) that "if the item is shipped and fraud is proven, then Paypal will cover my loss."

-Paypal investigates (paperwork collects dust on someone's desktop).

-Paypal reverses funds back to Person B account.

-Paypal says, because I don't have seller protection I am not eligable to get the funds covered.

-I have spent three hours on the phone trying to get paypal to see this with a bit of human emotion. But it is easier for the farmer-type sitting on the phone to say "no".

-I have spent one hour on the phone with the delivering post office, without luck in retrieving the package before delivery.

-I have spent hours typing e-mails to eBay, Paypal and now spreading the word via numerous fourms.

-I plan to contact the banking authorities in the US to see if Paypals actions are legal.

-I plan to contact SF-DRS KASSENSTURZ and the magazien CASH to see if they are interested in the story. (maybe get some free advertising )

-I plan to use my "arm-breakers" (credit check and inkasso company) and their foreign resources to make an attempt to obtain payment from Person A.

-I plan to empty my Paypal account.

-I plan to remove Paypal as a payment method from my webshop.

-I plan to promote Anti-Paypal for sellers, due to the lack of seller protection in outside of USA, Canada and UK.

-I plan to be Paypal's biggest pain in the neck for the next year or so about this (with the squeeky wheel theory).

Thanks for the tips, I will follow through to the best of my capabilities!

22
Actually, Richard, I am too pissed off to contact any Person A or Person B at this time. I wanted to clear this with Paypal before persuing other options.

It is totally black on white clear that Paypal is the problem here. Their so-called security is for the birds. When they claim fraud and take money from my account... they are the problem!

One option has been started, that is my "arm-breakers". They have been informed and the wheels are in motion. Person A should receive a telephone call before the weekend, followed up with a visit. Sure, this costs me, at least I will have some of my funds back to me if they are successful.

I will eventually contact Person A and Person B.

Thanks!

23
Scott, I SERIOUSLY recommend that you talk to the parties involved before getting further upset. The buyer may simply have reported to Paypal/Ebay that you did something fraudulent, and requested the money back. They may have been mistaken, or they may have done it deliberately. Getting the story straight would be a good idea before going off on one - Paypal may not be the enemy here!

24
Paypal is not interested in resolving this further! Go figure, they have wiped their hands clean of this and refused to cooperate or even communicate further than "Sorry Mr. Schmith, you do not qualify for Seller Protection, thus we will not cover your losses".

Well, at least they are friggen polite about this... they are not out the cash!

Trust in the system is out the window.

25
Is it likely that person B is a victim of phishing by person A?

If delivery is within CH, I'd drive over there and get the goods back...

26
Scott - if you also believe that you are the victim of fraud probably also a good idea to go to the police.

27
Thanks Mark, will contact Persons A & B, but later. If I contact them now, it might end up unconstructive. It is, IMO, Paypal's responsibility to make a full investigation before making a decision.

Bests from Chur

28
Been there, done it and have the T-Shirt

Report has been filed and they are kept up-to-date via yours truly.

29
Possibly, yes. My problem? No.

If the item were in CH, then I would have already gone to pay Person A a visit. Not that easy in this case!

Good thinking though!

30
It might be an idea to contact the authorities in the relevant country to notify them that a fraud has taken place, carried out by persons A and B. Also send them a copy of the Swiss police paperwork that you will have got when you reported it here.

Many police forces are now taking internet fraud seriously and they may already be investigating these people, or kick off an investigation on them.

It's quite incredible that Paypal took the money back out of your account and gave it to the payer purely on their say-so. If you can get some sort of official notification from the police in the other country then I suggest you send both sets of police paperwork to Paypal and tell them that they are complicit in a fraud.

Gav

31
Another good idea, partially this has been started. The local police are informed and the report has gone to the area courts for investigation.

This has burned so much energy in me, that I need to concentrate on something else for a short while to regain my composure. Perhaps then I will contact Persons A & B.

Thanks to all for the tips, this has (without a doubt) been the most active forum since the original post this afternoon. The other forums are much quieter

32
I took Mark's suggestion and gave it a try.... Just as I thought, no answer, from both Persons.

Then an e-mail from eBay Customer Support. "Because the account holder didn't actually bid on your listing, please consider the sale incomplete."

I tried to call Person B, this telephone number is disconnected. Then I obtained a second number, same deal.... disconnected.

What kind of timely joke is this turning into? It gets better every day!

As I sit here and shake my head, some Joe or Jane is making great photos... for free!

Lessons learned. Fingers burned. And you know why I share this information... so it does not happen to you!

33
Clearly it's been an organised scam and these sorts of crooks don't do one-offs.

Definitely get paperwork from police on both ends, send it to Paypal and threaten to initiate legal action.

Right now the police in Europe seem to be making a big deal about how they are tackling internet fraud and taking it seriously (based on what I read in the media). Maybe you can do a search for stories about such and get a contact name in the appropriate police force.

Frankly, I'm amazed that eBay ever could work. Knowing what I have experienced about human nature and the sorts of people who you can 'meet' on the internet it's just incredible that a system based largely on trust could work.

Gav

34
Before ebay there were also scams, the only difference is that people now meet on the internet. Before that they used to find each other via the newspapers and still complete the transactions via post, so that part is essentially the same.

A friend of mine was done via an ebay scam a while ago which involved 2 different parties. I can't remember the details, but it was quite clever. The upshot of it was that he was the seller, and the buyer ended up not getting his goods and the seller didn't get all the money. It was very clever. I think it involved buying multiple items at once and then making the payments for the wrong items to the wrong people. In the confusion that ensues the theif slips away unnoticed.

Scott, in your case one of the parties may be real, but may actually feel that YOU ripped him off - being totally unaware of what has happened.

35
Run it by the moneysaving evangelicals

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...play.html?f=40

It's a reasonably savvy core there with regards to PP/fleabay

36
Not true Mark.

I still have not received any replies from either Person. This is a total scam, fraud in every description.

I checked with one of the last persons to post feedback and they got screwed by this guy too. So, it's pretty obvious that Person A is out there to get all he can at the cost of others.

I asked eBay why this person still has an account - till now not a single answer or comment to my question.

At least eBay asked to see some of the supporting documentation I have with this case, maybe a last ditch effort or a way to get me to cool off some. NOT!

37
Any update?

Could the fraudster not do that after 2-3 days as well?

38
Update:

A) My arm-breakers (collection agency) are on the ground where the camera set was delivered. Contact has been established. Delivery was denied. We sent supporting documentation and proof of delivery. Still waiting for next update or funds from receiving side.

b) Filed officially, with supporting documentation, with the banking commission in the US state where Paypal is registered. My claim is that Paypal removed funds from my account without my approval. Waiting for their reply (been only a week or so).

Yes, jamaicanRUM, it is possible. However, if I am not mistaken, Paypal sends an e-mail to the paying person allowing them a limited amount of time to react if they did not authorize the money transfer.

FYI, I still accept payment via Paypal. My new policy when accepting funds from Paypal: Buyer must wait till the funds have been placed into my account here in Switzerland before I send the item (5-7 days). It is tough when your fingers are burned and want to keep the buyer happy at the same time . My current balance at Paypal is around CHF 20.-.

39
Really screwed up world!

I like your new policy. So once the money comes into your paypal account it takes 5-7 days for u to transfer it into your bank account? Right? Once that is done you send off the goods.

Once the money is in your Swiss bank account paypal can't take it away without your permission? Can't they charge your credit card instead? Or does the FRAUD method only work on the actual payment that came in via paypal?

I hope what I asked makes some sense.

40
PayPal chargebacks. This is the open door to rip-off central.