I have an ongoing issue with Axa and I am behind with payment whilst they sort it out. Despite an assurance that they would seek no further payment until it is resolved, I got a Post Office slip today to say that a Betreibungsrechnung (can't be translated accurately into English I think) is awaiting me at the Post Office.
I have emailed Axa to ask them WTF is going on and they have promised to come back to me by Monday with a solution. However, the Post Office slip says that they will only hold onto it until tomorrow.
Question is - am I best to collect it from the Post Office so I hold it, or is it OK to let the clock run out on it? If it gets returned to the Betreibungsamt, I don't know if they will issue a country wide alert and shut down my back accounts, but I also have a hazy memory that by taking it at the post office and signing for it, there is an element of acceptance of the debt
The written "assurance" says " you shouldn’t be punished with any penalties from our company during this solving process" . Hardly concrete, but enough, I think? The other point is that it isn't REALLY a penalty that they are charging now, just want me to pay.
And yes, i received 2 reminders
@ Zymogen - its not clear to me when the clock starts though. From the date it was sent or from the day I collect it? To be on the safe side, I'd rather not collect it. Is there a risk with that?
Two copies of the Zahlungsbefehl are issued: one for the creditor and one for the debitor.
This link ( http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/281_1/a72.html ) says that the date of pickup is written down on both copies. I'd say that this is the time when the clock starts ticking. I can't find a link where this is explicitly stated though.
Here is a pdf about the delivery of the Zahlungsbefehl; you can't dodge it and it doesn't need the "Mahnung" to start a Betreibung.
1. We had to and did pick up the notification letter by the date specified.
2. We wanted to contest, so wrote 'Rechtsvorschlag' on the letter and returned it to the Amt within ten days (note 10 calendar days - if day 10 falls on a Sunday, then you have to get there by the Friday!).
Now my understanding is different to the previous poster's at this point - it is up to the other party to provide the proof. (we were advised to wait until he last day to contest, perhaps that has something to do with it?). Or up to the other party to start proceedings (and IIRC loser pays costs).
Anyway, there is a sticky in one of the forums ("debts a d what happens when you do not pay" or something like that) and if I get time I'll try to find my notes. Btw my issue was over a rental contract and in the end was settled at the Schlichtungsbehoerde (sort of rent/housing arbitrage commitee) as it was the cheaper solution for both parties.
1) The initiator must provide some proof that there is a debt
2) The initiator must start collection proceedings if the debt is not settled after the Betreibung has been served. Small amounts (IIRC up to about CHF 600, but it may be less) are dealt with by the local "Friedensrichter", which is a type of mediation. Higher amounts are dealt with in court.
However there is one other issue here. Once the Betreibung has been served it will stay on your "Delinquent Debt Registry" (Betreibungsregister) whatever the outcome. If it turns out that AXA were wrong or you reach some amicable settlement you should not forget to ensure that AXA withdraw the Betreibung, otherwise it will remain on the registry.
1. What happens if I don't pick up from the Post Office?
2. If I DO pick up, then Axa tell me on Monday "Don't worry, our mistake" - do I still need to respond in ten days? (To be honest, thats what's behind the question - if I can get them to withdraw on Monday, and I haven't picked it up - it seems to save a lot of hassle)
@Snoopy - thanks for the reminder about the withdrawal from the register
Well one thing I can assure you of is that it will not go away once it is in the system, so ignoring it and crossing your fingers won't work.
If you are absolutely convinced that you do not owe them the money then go to the Post Office and write "Rechtsvorschlag" on it. This means that you do not recognize the debt and the onus is on the initiator to take further collection measures. Of course, you may have already reached an agreement with AXA fairly soon and the matter will be settled, except that you need to get AXA to remove the Betreibung from the system. If they were at fault then they will probably agree to do so. If it was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other then it may be more difficult.
I've been passed between many offices who all said different things. The last face-to-face they said it was their mistake.
Thanks for that
Given that they will want to keep my business (I have all my insurance with them), I assume they will withdraw it easily. Its "no skin off their nose" to withdraw it. Or am I being naive?
Who knows how insurance companies tick. I found this:
"Wer den Eintrag löschen will, muss den Gläubiger darum bitten. Nur er kann die Betreibung zurückziehen und so aus dem Register entfernen lassen. Dabei ist der Wortlaut entscheidend. Schreibt die Gläubigerin lediglich, der Schuldner habe bezahlt oder die Betreibung sei erledigt, dann erscheint die bezahlte Betreibung weiterhin im Auszug. Schuldner sollten deshalb auf der Formulierung «Ich ziehe die Betreibung zurück» bestehen ."
So, if you pay up they may just say that you paid but the Betreibung will stay in the register. If it was a mistake on the part of the insurer you have to get them to write that they withdraw it.
Not that any of you were having sleepness nights worrying about it, but to complete the story - I met Axa today and they accepted some liability for the issue and have agreed (upon payment of the outstanding amount by me) to cancel the record of the Betreibung and to reduce my premia for next year by the amount corresponding to the penalties above and beyond the principle amount
If they have agreed to do so then that is a good thing. Even if you settle a debt where you have had a Betreibung it will still be on the register (albeit with a comment saying that it has been paid). If AXA have agreed to withdraw it and have it expunged from the records that is an excellent outcome. There is no reason for someone to have an entry on the Betreibungsregister if the person collecting the debt also bears some responsibility.
If the Betreibung is cancelled it will be removed from the registry.
Go and collect it. They sent it to you, and they have evidence, they did so. You may come up with any excuse you like, but as soon as you have the slip it is available for you at the post office it counts as "delivered" in Germany, and most likely the same in swiss law. You can consider the post their witness, it is there for you.
If you pick it up, you can contest the content as being incorrect, but if you dont, you dont even know, what they accuse you of, and they still have evidence it is legally delivered, so by not picking it up, you worsen your own position.