Bringing second pillar savings to Germany

Finance, Taxes, Banking, Insurance and Retirement
1
I spent 12 years in Switzerland and since November I live in Germany. I am considering buying an apartment here and would like to use my second pillar pension savings for that. Has anyone on the forum done this? What I really want to know is how much tax I would need to pay in Germany on my second pillar savings.

2
Colleague of mine had done that and apparently only had to pay taxes on the interest amount of the pillar 2 amount.

I can give you the name of his advisor, will be contacting that person myself soon. So if you can wait, I will let you know.

3
You pay withholding tax in CH - the tax rate is that of the canton where your money is currently, so better first move the money to Schwyz Kantonal Bank before closing the account.

Here you can calculate the tax: https://www.postfinance.ch/en/privat...m-payment.html

I think also you will not be able to withdraw full amount but only the part exceeding mandatory.

Info here: http://www.helloswitzerland.ch/-/wha...e-switzerland-

So process would be:

1) Open vested benefit account in Schwyz Kantonal Bank

2) Transfer money there

3) Transfer available portion to Germany

4) Close vested benefit account in SKB as their rates are too high and move to another bank i.e. Migros

Important - the vested benefit account works like a pension fund. So you have some basic insurance in case of death, disability etc, for yourself and surviving kids and spouse. Hence factor that in as well.

K

4
yes, I can wait. Thanks so much for your help.

5
I have tried the postfinance calculator but keep getting an error in the tax location field

6
Annoying! I tried Zurich and it worked - did you use postal code?

7

I tried Geneva, Genf and 1201 - all failed

Just tried again and this time it worked!

8
Yes - need to put in postal code and name of city appears for you to click.

9
Hey Dack,

did you finally cash out? I'm interested in finding out if you had to pay the german tax (around 25% on capital gains) on your full 2nd pillar or only the interests.

Thanks

10
Not yet, but I hope to get it done within the next 2 months

11
That's the wrong calculator for the scenario that you wrote in your first passage. It applies only if you withdraw money while being a resident of CH, for primary residence or perhaps immediately before leaving (some funds can do that), and you will be taxed based on your current residence municipality, not the canton where the money is.

If you withdraw money after leaving Switzerland, different tax rate will apply - special tax at source rate based on canton where the money is, and this is indeed where moving money to SZ will help. Relevant tax calculator: https://www.liberty.ch/quellensteuerrechner/

12
In order to transfer the second pillar savings I must provide the company managing my second pillar account in CH with a "blocked" bank account to which the second pillar funds can be transferred before being paid to the seller of the apartment. This account should ensure that the money is used to fund the purchase of the apartment. It is not possible to transfer the money to an account which is held in my name. I imagine that what is required here is something like an escrow account .

Does anyone know how to go about setting up such an account in CH or DE?

In Germany a Notar can open a Notaranderkonto but there are a lot or restrictions attached to this. I asked the Notar handling the purchase of my apartment to open one for me but he refused.

13

Notaranderkonten are no longer used for a house sale (used to be first time I bought). We paid the owner directly after having had the approval from the notary to do so.

14

It is correct that such accounts are not normally used. However the may still be opened providing certain conditions are met (eg more than one bank financing the transaction). In my case the administrator of my second pillar savings says that I need such an account (or a "Treuhandkonto").

Can such an account be opened in CH?

15
Today I managed to transfer ALL of my second pillar account from CH to DE. In two weeks I get the keys to my new apartment!

16
Did you manage to get a Notaranderkonto?

17

No, the Notar did not want to open one. Nor did any other Notar I contacted. I did manage to persuade the administrator of my second pillar account to transfer the money directly to the sellers bank account. There was some documentation that I had to sign for that.

18
Hi Dack, Congrats on the new home! Are there any German taxes/deductions deducted or foreseen? I would like to do something very similar so any tips/contacts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

19

I had to pay Swiss taxes to withdraw the money. It is likely that there will also be German taxes but I won ́t really know until I get the bill next year. In theory interested earned is taxable in Germany but I should be able to offset the taxes already paid in CH.

20
Hi Dack,

did Germany tax your 2nd pillar fully as capital gains (26%)?

I'm not sure what to do with with 3rd pillar and my 2nd pillar (non mandatory part) when I leave CH in the next months.

Thanks for sharing.