Hello everyone,
It was suggested (by this board) that I send out this greeting message; at the same time, I want to thank everyone for posting such invaluable information and commentary about life in Switzerland.
A little about me :
I am a 44 y.o. American currently living in Sweden; I'm married to a Swedish woman; we have one child (daughter 4 y.o.); we own a small farm, 50 minutes south of Gothenburg; I work for a Swiss company; AND I'm considering my first to relocate to Switzerland (Zurich).
I've got a lot questions regarding the move, and I'm contemplating hiring a Swiss tax expert for specific information regarding owning property in another country while living in Switzerland, as well as other tax obligations to Sweden and the US.
That's about it.
I look forward to reading more of everyone's (and submitting my own) trials and tribulations, and successes, with the hope that we can all improve our lives.
James
Welcome to the forum James!
Although Sweden is nice I am about to move a second time to Switzerland. A good book to read before a move is "Living & Working in Switzerland: A Survival Handbook" by David Hampshire.
I have seen it in Akademibokhandeln and it can also be bought at bokus.se.
Dear James,
M husband and I came to Zurich ten years ago and we love it. It is easy to get around on public traansportation, a city of this size offeres a lot in terms of culture and teh lake is beautiful. Not sure where you would like to re-locate to, but Zurich is a great place. We have travelled to all cities in CH and each ahs its own character. The Swiss, although good people(you find good and bad all over the world) and dificult to get to know, as they are ratehr reserved. If you join various expats groups, you might be happier with your social lifel Although we do not have kids I hear over and over that CH is a good place to bring up kids. There are various expat groups all over Switzerland, even if you are not able to meet other Swedes, you would be able to meet people who go through similar experiences and can realte to your new move to CH. Best of luck.
Hi James,
I had been living in Norway for some years before moving to Zurich. It’s like a breath of fresh air, I can tell you leaving Scandinavia. (I am English by the way). I was extremely happy to come back to freedom of choice and be able to afford normal things again like i did in England. Sweden has nice friendly people and is a very beautiful country which I am extremely fond of. Scandinavia generally runs at a different pace to the rest of the world, and can be limited in many ways for a foreigner. It all depends on what you want out of life.
Working hours can be longer here, and that extra pound of flesh expected, but it has so many plus points. For me being at the heart of Europe is the biggest. It’s so international here I rarely want for anything.
There are rules yes but as long as you follow them it’s ok, things generally tick by with no problem. In Zurich there is no problem getting by with English, but if you understand Swedish it shouldn’t take too long to learn German. There are also so many different nationalities from all walks of live which makes it a very interesting place to live.
We have a wonderful climate here and you can also exhaust yourself with skiing possibilities.
My advice though is Zurich, as I think it’s possible Genève you might feel a bit isolated unless you speak French. I would say just do it. What have you got to lose? Sweden is always going to be there, but the opportunity to come here may not be.
Good luck
Cosmicgirl
Thanks Pingu,
I'm going to order the book. Being your second time moving to Switzerland, do you have any advice to make the transition easier?
Thanks Cosmicgirl,
I will be relocating to Zurich area (canton). My wife and I are looking forward to the move, especially being able to purchase wine and beer in a supermarket.
Being in the heart of Europe, we are also hoping to do some more traveling. Being raised in Southern California, the winters here in Sweden are a little rough for me. A fact I have heard from many Swedes.
I've been in Sweden now for five years, and I haven't yet acclimated to pace. I look forward to returning to an environment that appreciates and rewards the extra effort I put into my work. The extra hours I put in Sweden at my job only draw curious (and pitying) looks from my relatives and friends.
Although I am not one to say the grass is greener, but working for a Swiss company in Sweden isn't paying off; I might as well take the plunge and move to Switzerland.
My largest concerns are for my wife; I hope she will be able to find her spot in Switzerland. I hope she will have even more opportunity to sell her artwork, actually.
I will ask you the same, any advice on making the move easier?
Thanks Rainy,
My family and I will be locating to Zurich area. We are really looking forward to exploring what Switzerland has to offer us.
It's good to hear that raising a child in Switzerland is a good thing. I am a little concerned finding a daycare for my daughter; My wife needs to find some time for herself to get used to living there as well.
Having lived in Zurich for 10 years, any advice you have to makes things easier?
We've been here in Switzerland for almost a year with three children..
There is plenty to do and I haven't had any trouble finding english-speaking mums with small children who are looking for new friends!
For child-care there is a range of options. It is not necessarily cheap, but it depends on what you are looking for. I took the plunge and found our toddler (18 months) a place two days a week in a swiss-german 'kindertagestatte' which is basically long-day-care, and am happy so far...the younger staff 'translate' for me with the director, and my son doesn't seem to mind at all that they speak a different language - he waves and babbles and smiles a lot to get his message across...
Although the hours seem to be longer (my husband's contract is for 45 hours a week plus a set amount of hours during school holidays as he is a teacher)...in his case the employers seem very reasonable and don't over-do the additional requirements, and we find plenty of things to do on the weekends...
Also, the long days in summer, and the central-heating in winter make it possible to get a lot done in a day...and the shops are open longer than we are accustomed to - open at 7am and close at 7am at our 'local'.
It's a really nice safe and easy-to-get around place with small children. I trundle my kids on and off the trams, buses and trains and I have to say *every time* someone will offer to help...and if there's no one there, the bus and tram drivers have even helped out!
As for the art-scene I think there's probably a good community around the universities (ETH and Uni Zurich)...so that is a good start...
Hi James,
First bit off advice I’ll give you is get a good relocation package! Possibly food etc is around the same price as Sweden, it’s definitely cheaper than Norway here. The biggest problem is the cost of rent! We are talking London prices, so don’t be fooled when your company may say that the tax is less on your salary , it is but you need that extra cash. The salaries are much higher here than Sweden remember that and you don’t want to be unhappy later along the line. Salaries are a bit of a taboo here. You will have to pay health care and insurances and of course THE RENT.
Secondly you must demand a relocation agent to help you find a place, it is pretty impossible otherwise. But beware I had one that constantly showed be rubbish until I got firm with her, eventually I got what I was looking for. You will also have to cough up 2 to 3 months deposit to put down. I would recommend staying in central Zurich to start with in one of the kreis around the city, but it will be expensive and most probably be a flat. I live 2 minutes walk from Lake Zurich in kreis 8 and it is amazing everything is on my doorstep and I never feel like an outsider.
You should really try to get somewhere permanent to live before you move though. It is extremely depressing living in a serviced apartment, you will all go crazy! I know i did !
This is the Swedish removals which I recommend. It is linked to an international movers I have used in England before and they also delivered my furniture from England to Norway and again to here.
http://www.kungsholms.se/
Cosmicgirl
Hi James,
Regarding the rent it's only high if you live in the city of Zurich. Simple case of demand exceeding supply.
You can live 20 minutes away by train and prices are quite reasonable. Have a look at www.homegate.ch to get an idea about prices and www.zvv.ch for transport connections.
OK I don't have a family but if I did I would rather live outside the city anyway without the noise, traffic, weirdos, etc.
Craig
Thanks again, Cosmicgirl.
Regarding "First bit off advice I’ll give you is get a good relocation package!" How would you describe a good package? The company has already agreed to pay to move my family and hire a relocation expert to find us an apartment. Are you referring most to salary?
James
Thanks for the advice, Craig.
I don't think we're willing to spend as much as required to live downtown. And I have no problem taking the train if I need to see the lake. Besides my office is in Kloten (near airport), so we have been lookig in Winterthur and the surroundings.
James
Last time we went to Zürich, this time we are going to Lausanne so there are always news things to learn.
One big difference this time is that the Englishforum exists! It is really good to be able to search the forum and read stories contributed by others.
Finding an apartment in Zürich was really difficult so if you have help from your company with this, it is good.
As many others have said, Zürich is a nice city and Switzerland is a good place for bringing up children. In fact, that is one of the main reasons why I am returning to Switzerland.
Now, here's the real question folks:
Is a yearly base salary in the mid 120K plus bonus adequate to support my family in the Zurich area? I'm a little concerned about the cost of a multi-lingual school/daycare for my daughter. And I want my wife to have some money in her pocket to look around the area and not be stuck at home.
I see many questions relating to adequate salaries, most are under 100K, so I assume that anyway over 100K is good. But I want opinions.
Thanks in advance.
James
Yes, 120k is decent salary to pretty much afford to pay school fees, run a car and pay for your rent. Expect to pay around 2000 - 2500 for a 2-3 bedroom apartment in Zurich within half an hour of your workplace by public transport.
I would not run two cars... consider living with no car for a while. The public transport here is brilliant, and there are times when the public transport runs but the cars cannot...after snow in the mid-winter.
you can browse the forum for plenty of ideas on living standards and what is cheap and what is not-so-cheap.
Taxes are significantly lower here than in Sweden, and factor in compulsory health insurance which is about 200 chf a month for adults, and 70-80 per child. Also, you get 150chf a month family/child allowance which is taken off your tax each month...
If your wife is friendly and resourceful, she will find plenty of like-minded expats here and friends to make...
Thanks for words of encouragement, swisspea. I just want to be sure that my family is well taken care. No money is worth the amount if my marriage falls apart because of this move. I will convince her of the benefits of joining this forum.
Hej Pingu!
I'm curious about your statement "As many others have said, Zürich is a nice city and Switzerland is a good place for bringing up children. In fact, that is one of the main reasons why I am returning to Switzerland."
Do you actually think raising children in Switzerland is better than Sweden? I figured that was the one thing we'd be losing out on from Sweden - all the free dagis (daycare) and schooling?
We're from Sydney, Australia.
Plenty of people (particularly from the UK) who have been to Sydney, ask us seriously, why did we come to Zurich ?
Sydney is not so different...the people are friendly, the weather is superb and the lifestyle is lovely...
But we came not because we didn't like Australia, but because we wanted our children to have a much bigger experience of the world, and for us there was the incentive of a career move and change of pace of life...
We did worry about our marriage, though, but we seem to have survived the first year...we'd been married 10 years before we arrived...which may have helped somewhat...and we also came of the back of a series of tough situations, which somehow got through, so we thought, "oh well, lets just take the plunge"...
My husband is making a very respectable salary (under the 100K mark) which is plenty enough to live better than we did in Australia, and on a single income - in Oz we were working a combined total of 60-70 hours a week for a similar lifestyle...
Wonderful to hear that you and your husband made it through the difficult times; I can assure you that when we moved to Sweden five years ago, had our first child, and I had to learn another language, our marriage of twenlve years was pushed to the limit.
But we survived as well. That's why I'm confident my wife will do fine in Switzerland; she also tolerated quite a bit of punishment for her accent (and English mistake) in American for twelve years and learn to laugh about
I have to say, we've been to Sydney. We thought it was fantastic, but I completely understand what you mean about experience the world.
My wife and I met in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. Nice place, warm, good diving and places to drink, but we couldn't see spending the rest of our lives there.
8 Jul 09 update: Negotiations are in progress. Many of my original questions were answered in the very informational book "Living and working in Switzerland" by David Hampshire, 12th ed.
I highly recommend this as a great source of information for any person considering the move to Switzerland.
I will keep everyone posted on new updates with my situation.