I'd appreciate some feedback on the following situation -
My (9 year-old) son and a kid in his class have been having various degrees of conflicts with both instigating over the course of 2 years.
The latest is that my son damaged the other kid's bookbag to the point where it will likely need replacing. Goes without saying this isn't acceptable. I haven't seen the bag, so can't assess the damage or how much it may have cost.
The other kid's mother is expecting us to pay for the damaged bag which is fair enough.
Here are my questions:
Am I out of line to request a picture of the bag / to see the bag and the extent of the damage?
How much do we give her? I'm fully intending to make my son stump up for at least part (not that this needs to be any of her concern).
You give her the cost of purchasing a new bag of the same make/model. No pictures, no depreciation for hours used, no quibbles. Her choice if she gets it and hands you the bill, or if she tells you what make/model/where she got it and you go and purchase it.
Your son made a mistake. There's no optimizing to be done to make it less expensive. Talk to the other mother. If she comes out with the claim that it is a one off Gucci, family heirloom, signed by Globi himself then... ask to see the bag. Otherwise, "I'm sorry. What bag is it, will you get it and give me the bill, or shall I go and get it, and where?"
When my eldest was bullied at his last school and his stuff was damaged in the process, my wife phoned up the parents of the other children, stated what had happened and told them how much it was to replace.
They always paid up without any quibbles.
Not sure what would have happened if the refused to pay but I think parents here seem pretty scared of getting either the school or the Police involved, or both.
On a wider perspective, it might be worth seeing what their class teacher's view is on this.... it might need additional intervention to resolve the problem... the school should be able to work on this with both kids...
We've had the teachers and others involved in trying to keep these two out of each others' hair with limited success. What really gets me is that it's not constant. They actually also enjoy playing with each other (confirmed by the teachers) and are capable of working constructively with each other.
What WJ says. But from me, a BIG BRAVO - such a wonderful, refreshing change, for you to agree your son is in the wrong (I bet the other kid too) - and be prepared totake responsibility and more importantly, make your son face the consequences. Clap clap clap clap clap.
Hope you can work with the other parents and teacher/s to find a way out of this nonsense- it must be very wearing. x
Thank you, Odile. It's so disappointing to have to realize that your kid is up to stuff that certainly hasn't been taught at home, but I certainly don't get how you can not look at this stuff critically.
I've taken your advise, and hope for a constructive response.
Perhaps you didn't have any brothers when you were a child. Kids aren't perfect, even if they get all the right examples from home - this counts double for boys (and as far as I can tell, triple for girls).
Try not to stress the "you certainly didn't learn this from your father and I" too much. He made a mistake, he needs to know that, and put it right.
Just wait until he notices girls. The other kid may even fall head over heels for the same porcelain goddess as yours. If you get along with the other mother by then you'll be able to giggle about it with her.
I personally would ask to see the bag itself & buy the same one. The other kid might decide it's a good opportunity to change to the latest whim & get an upgrade otherwise. It's fairly normal to have bags wrecked when they are that age whoever is responsible. They throw them all over & if not their own, someone elses. And holes in jeans & shoes.
Thank Neddy. That's kinda my line of thinking as well. The boys are just finishing off 3rd grade, so it's kinda reasonable to expect the habit/tradition of getting a new bag for the next 3 years.
The mom replied, suggesting I pay whatever I want to pay and a jibe at the fact that she's had to replace slippers as well (which has nothing to do with my son). Trying to keep my cool, not take it personally and figure out how much I want to give her
Not that this is even the issue here but the 9-10yr age boundary isn't fixated, it depends on the individual case. The child is liable if the consequences were predictable by the child. The more direct and the more obvious the consequnce, the more likely the child is liable even at a relatively young age.
If OP's son, for instance, had repeatedly jumped on the other kid's bag, it would probably be impossible to claim non-accountability at age 9 as the consequence is completely direct. The Beobachter, for instance, mentions the case of a 9yr old playing with matches in a barn who was ruled liable for having it burn down.
Thanks for the suggestion, Mrs Doolittle. I've tried all kinds of things including play dates, joint meals, explicite birthday party invites... I've come to the conclusion that this is one of those cases where you just gotta walk away. We clearly don't have enough common ground to try to join forces and tackle these issues constructively and have a very wide delta when it comes to parenting choices.
The kid is moving to another school next year, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they can stay out of each other's hair for the next 2 weeks and that this is the last episode of their quarrels...
That would be a great conclusion, if, and only if, the facts were proven.
A decent investigation should have been made, in the interest of all parties (which is a cold way of saying for the sake of each mamas and each families).
So maybe the boy "damaged the bag" but the how and the extend of the damages have to be proven first.
We are talking about children, maybe even the facts were not so "black and white" as a boy would say.
Only then, knowing exactly what happened, you could make a decent decision. Including explaining appropriately to the boy, and eventually compensating.
It's not running away from the problem, I think on the contrary it's not giving up on your child, giving him the benefit of the doubt, moderating it with appreciation of his acts vs his age, and not feeding and conceding to a equally ignorant mama who's acting as the innocent victim, and seems to surf on emotions.
Guess I don't see the problem with this. So what if the other kid gets a different bag than the exact one he had? As long as it's in the same price bracket, I mean. (Or of course if the one he now wants is more expensive, his mom is welcome to top up the difference herself... no skin off my nose.)
If someone wrecks my car their insurance pays me an agreed replacement cost - they don't insist that I re-buy the exact same make, model and color.
If the issue is that the other kid's mom can't be trusted to police this (like-for-like vs substantive upgrade) then the extra 30Fr or whatever is probably money well spent to disentangle yourselves as rapidly as possible. The tone of any subsequent exchanges is only going to deteriorate.
The kid is at school and can learn his own things, which is usually why the schools are often a "no parents allowed" zone.
You are not the only teaching source, and the child already has his own life and experiences. Why would you put blame on yourself and be disappointed?
Join the child in his learning journey, accompany him, guide him, parent him. I don't see why would you add your own disappointment to that...
Plus frankly, being disappointed because a 9 year old boy had a tiny incident with another boy, seems a little bit over the top. They learning, they fight, so be it... Seems your expectations are unrealistic and somehow inappropriate.
And that does not means "do not care" or "do nothing" but, maybe moderate?
PS: It's great you try to defuse situation with other parent, I think you should first be more supportive of your own children, at least by investigating correctly what happened.
What is the bag was an old junk already ripped? It would take very little force to rip it further. Sure, the bag would be "destroyed" anyway, but that would means the difference between a destroyer children and a playful children who did a tiny mistake. Moderation, from facts, not from emotional allegations.