Difference between Unrestricted B and restricted B

Visas, Permits, Passports and Naturalization
1
Dear All,

I'm fairly noob in this forum. To my admittance a little lazy too

Read quite a few articles regarding English channels, Satellite dish etc. from this forum. Very interesting and informative indeed.

I have been working here (on and off) for 1.5 yrs, now want to settle here.

My job in Zurich gets me a B permit (I have an Indian passport), which has to be renewed every year. What is funny is my permit states that I am allowed to stay as long as my job exists, (Frist zur Ausreise) and that I am not allowed to change job. Though I pay ALV, I have leave the country at first sign of trouble. I would like to call this restricted B Ausweis.

Having consulted with another fellow Indian, I found that he does not have the same clause. He can change job if he wants, and allowed to stay for 18 months (with ALV offcourse) in case if he loses his job. Also if it matters, he works in Canton Argau. I would like to call this unrestricted B Ausweis.

I have the following questions if someone can help me with:

1) Is there a reason why am I given a restricted B as someone else with very similar background given unrestricted B?

2) Is it possible THEY see you for first year and then on, give you unrestricted B, may be?

3) In my understanding, with my restricted B, I may be able to bring my spouse (who also has same citizenship as I have) along here too, but she would have NO chance to obtain a job here. But I am said, that with the above mentioned unrestricted one, my friends spouse could get a job almost without any trouble at all. Am I correct?

Administration makes life a lil difficult in Swiss indeed ....

Any help is welcome ...

Thanks

Bender

2
As a non-EI citizen you are left to the discretion of the issuing Kanton who will only give you the permit they see fit. The key is whether your permit is annually renewable to a limit of 4 years or whether it is annually renewable. This is difficult to see unless it is written on the permit. Fact is after 4 years you are "integrated" in the Swiss working life and therefore have additional entitlements.

So if you have a limit of 4 years on your permit then it is a restricted B permit and surprisingly perhaps although you pay, and indeed must pay, ALV you have no right to the money if you are made unemployed.

As far as being able to change jobs is concerned it is entirely normal to have restrictions on your ability to do this. That your friend does not have a clause in the permit restricting this implies he also has an EU passport or an EU passport holding wife or child.

To the best of my knowledge there is never a statement on the permit that says he is entitled to ALV and therefore you are making an assumption here. With respect to job changing the interesting part would be if he actually tried to change jobs! At this point assuming that he is not an EU citizen his current permit would become invalid and he would need or better said his employer would need to apply for a new permit and then there might just be problems...

With respect to your Question 2 no this is not the case.

With respect to Question 3. Only if she is an EU/EFTA citizen will she be provided with a residence and work permit contemporaneously. If she is an Indian citizen then the employment market will be effectively closed to her as it would be to your wife.

3
Richard, first of all, Thanks A LOT for your comprehensive reply.

" The key is whether your permit is annually renewable to a limit of 4 years or whether it is annually renewable " --> I think my permit states that it is valid till the end of this year and then my firm has to freshly apply again. So I think, I have not read this 4 years clause yet. But expecting the worst am I getting even worser deal? Also every year, my firm has to cough up 600 bucks. Definitely, my firm, would like to have me for good and has given me a contract which states that, but Arbeitsamt seems to have not taken keen interest in me.

What I am also very sure of is, he is not holding an EU passport nor his wife. The only thing different (if I may call that), is he did his doctoral studies in Zürich. So he was here more than 4 years for sure, with a Ausweis B, whereas I have had 2 yrs with my previous job at ETH.

As for his wife, she DID get a job saying that her husband had an 'Ausweis B with no restrictions' --- Non EU, Indian passport.

I am totally stumped.

So, if I again try to deduce, I would be paying this huge percentage of my salary as ALV, and there is no safety net waiting for me if I lose my job! Nor can my wife have a smooth sailing job when she wants.

Is there anyone who has a Ausweis B, working in Zurich, experienced such a situation? Changing/losing job, wife being able to work etc? I would be very thankful, if someone could respond. It seems every person experiences different things, depending on who he/she talked to in the administration!

4
Maybe my case is similar as well. I am not from EU15 and I am currently working as a postdoc in Bern. I did my Ph.D. in Zurich. When I came to Bern, by chance I found on my B permit it is written "limited to 3 years". I did not really pay attention because my boss said that university would like to re-advertise the job after 3 years and that is why i only got the contract for 3 years, rather than 5 years when he applied for me. Now three years passed and I have got another job in Basel, however, the Frendempolizei in Basel rejected to issue the permit to me. The boss in Basel got angry and asked his lawyer to call them, by no reason the official submitted my profile to "Abeitsamt"!? I got lost - my two questions are:

1) Why do they send to "Abeitsamt"? What does it do?

2) I roughly know that in CH there are two kinds of B permit and probably my permit B is not a real work permit. In my case, does it help if comany, say Roche, applies for me again?

Thanks for any hints

5
Jasper I really do feel your exasperation! All this dual nature of Ausweis B is terrible complicated for someone who may have difficulty comprehending the twisted laws although who is highly qualified for his/her job!

Why not make a Ausweis B1 and Ausweis B2? Keeping the whole thing under smoke screen just makes everyone honestly trying to apply for a workpermit more and more difficult. Whereas it is hardly making things any difficult at all for ones who are illegally trying to gain entry.

With my limited knowledge coupled with forums like these I believe Arbeitsamt is the department which dictates whether or not someone is worthy enough to get a job in Swiss depending on his/her skill set and more importantly current requirement for Swiss market. Someone may correct me if I am wrong.

So Frendempolizei in Basel seeing that your permit is not valid anymore, would require Arbeitsamt to reaffirm to them that you are still wanted in Swiss market and counting whether the quota for that specific industry has been filled or not. IMHO if your company applies again and can again prove that you are indispensable and Arbeitsamt also feels so, you will get your B permit again.

All said and done, I felt a bit bitter with the whole situation. So in a forum like this, I may sound a little viler than I am usually.

6
Hi Bender,

I have a bit of unconfirmed information on this, though it ie good news for you. Here it goes

1) Is there a reason why am I given a restricted B as someone else with very similar background given unrestricted B?

Actually it depends on the integration. Meaning that for the first time when you get a b Permit, it is usually given for 2-4 years(mine is 3 yrs and I am sure even you have this restricted time which you'll find in the first confirmation letter you get from Arbietsamt or migrationsamt), meaning that you just need the annual renewal from Geminde and has no formalities at the end of ArbietsAmt. After this 2-4 years if you have done allright without any problems, loss of jobs or any bad records you get a normal unrestricted B which allows you to change the jobs (check it with your friend, this is what he has and how he got it). So like Richard said those initial period of visa has provision because of integration, and should be consider as probation time in switzerland where the society and administration sees how nicely you can get adapted and then you get additional entitlements.

2) Is it possible THEY see you for first year and then on, give you unrestricted B, may be?

Yaa as explained to you before that is how it happens but it is not 1 year process, it is usualy the time for which the restrcited B is given, it could be 2 to 4 years. You'll see it in the papers you got for the first B.

3) In my understanding, with my restricted B, I may be able to bring my spouse (who also has same citizenship as I have) along here too, but she would have NO chance to obtain a job here. But I am said, that with the above mentioned unrestricted one, my friends spouse could get a job almost without any trouble at all. Am I correct?

If you are on B and your wife is on dependent b here then from Feb 2006 onwards she is entiteled to work here. Just that finding a job (even in IT) is tough here. You can just go t Geminde and ask this question. I cheked it last year in my Kries buro last year and got to know this.

Having said all this there is a possbility of changing the jobs within restricted B as well. Call ArbietAmts for that, it say your employer should relieve you on the ground that they don't need you and the new job should justify that they need this highly specilized person or skill which they are hunting for months and couldn't find and they thus offer you the job to you. In that case the ArbietAmts give a written waiver to the restrictions. But I have not yet seen a case like that, there is one in Process. Lets see.

Hope it helps and you feel a bit less bitter.

7
Hello Gerek,

Thanks for atleast showing that there is some light at the end of the tunnel. And definitely a lot less bitter....

I especially like the argument about integration. I have been working at ETH for 1.5 yrs till Mar 07, and all the time with a B permit, though my contracts were always 1 year long.

Now that I shifted to a consulting firm and they applied for my B permit, I expected (in vain i.e.) I will be getting "without restriction B".

Which in other words allows me to atleast know that in one year my company does not have to start fighting again with the arbeitsamt, proving my worthiness etc etc. IMHO how long would a company be willing to go through all the trouble? Everything has a limit!

The first confirmation letter from the Arbeitsamt or Migrationsamt states my tenure in the company is only valid for one year and after that my company again has to reapply! No clue what is "reapplying", whether it is the whole procedure of Arbeitsamt checking against the quota of people, remains to be seen.

Both me and my company thinks ... "oh not again!!" So I am still to find that 2-4 year clause, which you mentioned. Does your letter state 3 years explicitly? (Of course, I do not mind yearly renewal)

Regarding my wife working, your kreisburo mentions "entitlement for job", that is very good news. What I want to know (only if someone has prior experience, or information) is it difficult to find a job because the employer sees the dependent B ausweis? Or is is because finding job in itself is difficult.

I don't really blame administration for all this, just that things are not transparent enough. That one may plan, "aha .. after this and this time I am free to change job or anything ... my wife can get a job in the meantime, we can plan our family etc etc"

" the new job should justify that they need this highly specilized person or skill which they are hunting for months " -- this is what my present company had to prove .... I hope that they do not have to do the same every year!! Any comments from someone?

I REALLY do hope all that you said is perfectly correct.

8
Hi Again,

Just let me confirm again some things here. When you are a non-EU B there is always the possibility to change jobs. It is just that when this job change is applied for you effectively start again in the permit process (the past years are not lost) and will be measured against the Swiss and EU competition. This can result in you losing your permit if the application is rejected. The primary reason for a rejection is that your previous employer is not willing to release you. Given that you will need a reference from your employer for your work being of good quality and a release note from him to go then you are not really "free". If you do not get the permit release note you need to leave the country and effectively start again.

As long as your contracts are one year in length you will always get a one year application process. If the ETH wants to make their life easier they should give you a longer contract or alternatively unrestricted in time. They are making the full application process each time albeit without all the bells and whistles.

Note that when you moved to the consulting company their work with the migrationamt will be dependent on what the term of your contract is.

You will not find the 2-4 year clause as you do not have a permanent contract just a temporary one and this clause does not make much difference. What then happens is they issue the permit for 4 years with annual renewals. The renewal is then a rubber stamp demonstrating you are still with the company you were with.

With respect to your wife she will still have at the start a residence permit only and will need to apply for a job against all the possible employees in CH and EU ie not easy unless she is highly qualified.

What contract has your new company given you? That will answer your last question. Note B permits are almost without exception annually renewed it is all down to what renewal means.

9
Hey Richard thanks a tonne...

My company has given me an unlimited contract for work. Only that they (as in we) are a small company, and were worried that big giants like ABB, Alstom, UBS, CS actually finishes off the quota for foreign workers due to their strong HR department!( No offense meant)

Unfortunately, letter called "Stellenantritt", which I had to take to the Kreisburo for my Auslander Ausweis, states ..

"Stellanantritt als: Frist zur Ausreise"

"Gültig vom /ab : 01.01.2007 bis 31.12.2007"

"Bedingungen: Gemäss AWA-Verfügung vom 15.03.2007. Jahresaufenthalt ARt 14/4 BVO. Die Bewilligung ist auf 12 Monate befrist und an den bewilligten Einsatz gebunden. Ein Stellenwechsel ist nicht möglich."

"Bemerkungen: Diese Verfügung ist provisorisch und gilt nur ibs zum Erhalt der neuen Anwesenheitsbewilligung."

The gist as I understand is that it is only for one year and I cannot change job and after this is over then one has to apply once again.

Now, I am unclear (pardon my limited intelligence , these are matters beyond my comprehension sometimes...), am I the one with 3-4 year initial Work permit, with Annual renewals ONLY at the Kreisburo?

or does annual renewal mean my company writes for extension to the Arbeitsamt, the Arbeitsamt again checks against the quota of foreign workers etc etc for THAT year... my company still says it will go down without me and after agonizing wait for 3 months may be they give a work permit?

As I stated in my pilot post, my other Indian friend has no nonsense permit, with his indian wife working without any trouble (being dependent on him) ... and he showed awe at all those funny clauses in my permit!

Am I over reacting? Thanks once again for any kind words ...

10
You are a small company. Are you then filling in the form for the permit? I ask as there are some errors here in what you are doing.

You need to make sure the next time you apply that you have filled in the stellenantritt als to say senior manager or whatever you role is.

You need to say that your contract is unbefristet ie Gultig vom/ab 01.01.08 bis unbefristet. The fact that you only have a one year permit is irrelevant. If you do not say your contract is unbefristet then you will always get an annual permit...

The fact that you have the permit means that you have the place in the quota system. They cannot give this away until 14 days after your permit has expired. So don't worry about other HR departments and I think your use of the word strong is a little bit of an over-estimate of their abilities

The reference to the stellenwechsel is basically saying that if you change your job or at least try to you will need to go through the whole process again ie the permit is not transferable.

Don't stress, just make sure that next time you fill it out correctly...

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Hmm .....

No thankfully I did not fill up the form, but I will check with the HR whether they goofed it up or not. But is it possible they filled up "unbefristet" in the form and still the

Since me as well as my company are very sure that they would like me to work here for good ... only that they are low in experience for such a work permit process. About overestimating, well .. small fishes are always scared of big fish you see! But thanks for the encouraging words ... also that my quota is not going to be filled up by someone else when I twitch my fingers waiting for permit extension is a relief ..

Okay, as of now with the permit I have with the mentioned clauses, what does it look to you?

i) am I the one with 3-4 year initial Work permit, with Annual renewals ONLY at the Kreisburo?

ii) Or does annual renewal mean my company writes for extension to the Arbeitsamt, the Arbeitsamt again checks against the quota of foreign workers etc etc for THAT year... my company still says it will go down without me and after agonizing wait for 2-3 months may be they give a work permit?

In my understanding, I think I would be falling under ii) but then this time while extending for next year, hopefully the form is filled correctly and/or Arbeitsamt takes pity on me, and I get a permit which is unlimited time, and unrestricted ..

Guys here have been most kind and helpful! I wonder whether everyone spends so much time on the internet like me or not ... the answers are forthcoming sometimes even in 30 min!! Thanks a lot ... once again ..

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-- Sorry, some typing error, I continue ... and still the Arbeitsamt felt that they ought to give only one year?

13
This means that if one finds a new position within 14 days after the date on the permit...one is still within the quota and can apply at the Migrationsamt/Abrbeitsamt for a job change ?

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The fact that you have the permit means that you have the place in the quota system. They cannot give this away until 14 days after your permit has expired. So don't worry about other HR departments.

14
Unlikely the idea of the migrationsamt is to help the companies and their employees and not to make life difficult... As long as the form is completed correctly you will get your permit with multiple years and annual renewal.