I thought the important thing was manual versus automatic?? Mine is auto but I do have to use the gears occassionally - my french teacher was horrified I drove an auto in the mountains and considered it madness!
Don't laugh - I drive a Ford Focus up and down the mountain! The key is really the speed at which you do this - there was only one day last year where I wish I hadn't started on the journey - saw several lovely bigger and better cars in the trees.
Just ordered me a brand new Mercedes B180CDI with automatic transmission and all the ESP/ABS etc etc stuff on it.
Even though the amount of km's I make doesn't justify a diesel I chose it over the petrol because of the torque. Somehow it makes the car much more pleasent under real-world conditions. Example: even though the petrol version of the B180 has a few HP more than the diesel, the diesel is faster 0-100 (for the automatic). The car has some sort of electronic control that prevents the wheels from spinning so I expect no problems in winter.
The way I see it, AWD means you have propulsion on all wheels and that is kind of it. When it comes to braking all cars have AWB (all-wheel braking) so then the situation for all cars is the same. With a modern ESP the car has control over the brakes in each wheel independently, it will put the brakes on the appropriate wheels when it senses you're spinning out of control. AWD cannot compete with this.
About fuel gelling and difficult starting, I never had any problems starting my old diesel van here in the winter ?
Diesels and Turbos work very well with automatics. Automatics like lots of torque and keep the engine under load so the turbo chargers stay spooled up. Having said that, I don't really like Automatics. However I am from the USA, land of the Automatic Transmission.
If you like to get way out there, I would still recommend chains if you don't have them. Some times you just need chains.
You are right about AWD and the rest with regard to braking. AWD just means that you can drive faster in a straight line and around corners. It doesn't mean you stop faster. In fact, I would go so far as to say it means you stop less quickly.
Err, yeah, about the fuel gelling. You can get different grades of diesel in the USA. There are No. 1 and No. 2, as well as additives. No 1. is for warmer weather use and No 2. is for cold weather use. Of course while No. 2 doesn't gel it also doesn't lubricate the fuel system and is a major cause of injector system failure in the States. We have just started to get proper diesel fuel over there that doesn't gel in the winters. The other problem is that a lot of people fill up in the south (warmer) where it is cheaper and drive north (colder) where they then have their fuel gel as they are driving down the road. They finally started fining drivers for this if they obstructed the interstates.
In the Northern part of the USA (Near the Canadian Border) the temperature drops below -20F almost every night in the winter. This is about -30C. You can feel the moisture in your skin freeze and crackle.
Brian.
You will only need an AWD or 4WD if you live in London and travel no further than 2 miles a day taking your overweight kids to school
Thank you for all the replies
I think I will go see some Subarus, I hear that they are also very reliable, and when it comes to this point, the Celica really pampered me.
Although I am also tempted by a Bmw 3 sedan with awd, just to drive a Bmw once in a lifetime.
For summer I was thinking about a Chevy Camaro 5.7 , they are quite cheap.
Oh yes about the last Celica, production of the 7th Generation stopped 2005 AFAIR.
I have noticed that the European cars are far more comfortable and solid - much more suitable for all those tall people here! We went with European cars here because we like to support the more local markets wherever we are. The subarus do have a very good safety rating though - perfect for if you go sliding off those icy backroads
I must agree on the fuel economy in Euro cars. Our petrol A4 TDi gets better mileage than the Toyota Prius. And the Smart? well, you can't get a better commuting/shopping trolley than that
Thanks for the info .
I have been here a few years and travelled to .many places in all conditions. The worst I have seen was in March/April one year when we were coming from the south to take the Gottard tunnel - and it was snowing like crazy from Bellinzona Sud.
Crazy like 20cm in an hour crazy.
There were many cars from many nationalities caught in this. First to drop were those foreigners with summer tyres - they could no longer move and basically helped close the road....there were so many. I think the 15-year-old Merc who was constantly being overtaken by himself also helped here
Thankfully I passed these just in time - at a steady, careful pace in my FWD Saab (2.3T but with auto box and "W" pressed!!). Some people passed me going waaaaay too fast but as you would expect, I saw them later in a ditch.
Moral of the story is that we all obey the same rules of physics. Slow into danger and faster out - if the conditions allow. Stopping in any wheel drive is still the same
Since I now have a proper 4x4, I have been hoping this would happen again - no such luck
We've been here 15 years and never had the need for an AWD vehicle. We've been up to numerous ski resorts, over several passes, up and back from Munich several times, and driven in blizzards and hailstorms and on ice. The only real justification for getting an AWD is if you decide to live off the beaten track, up in the hills or mountains somewhere, where the snow and ice might be more severe and the roads might not necessarily be ploughed or gritted.
Depending on the location of your future house, an AWD might be a very good idea.
Otherwise you don't really need it, but IMHO it's worth it if you drive in the mountains a lot. Even more so, because in some cantons (Graubünden for sure, don't know about Berne) AWDs are usually exempt if chains are mandatory.
No. This stuff makes it much easier to drive FWDs or RWDs on ice and snow, but you'll never get the same amount of traction with just two wheels, no matter how much fancy electronics you put in a car.
Don't forget that AWDs get most of these electronics too...
...and don't forget a sporty AWD car is just so much more fun to drive in any conditions
Definitely it is the law of physics if you have power going down on 4 wheels rather than two.
Except that the front steering wheels are being pushed sideways in relation with their rolling surface as soon as steering deflection is induced which isn't necessarily good karma.
Our family had two 5 series cars of which one was RWD and the other AWD. They both had DSP, which is BMW speak for ESP, and 4 channel ABS.
In snow and ice the RWD would take much more time to get up to speed where as the AWD would just hook up and move. It's actually a good way to see the differences between AWD and 2WD. AWD accelerates faster and steers a little bit better. They both stop about the same though.
One other thing that I don't remember anyone bringing up is Snow Tires.
Just because you have AWD (if you do) doesn't mean that you still don't need grip. One of the mail reasons for 4X4's in the USA loosing control is that they get up to speed quickly but are on All Season tires and don't stop well at all. AWD with snow tires is like driving on wet pavement most of the time. It is actually lovely, quite calm and reassuring.
Good Luck and enjoy the ride,
Brian.
Actually most hydraulic automatics don't like a lot of torque and some have torque limiters active when in 1st and sometimes 2nd gear.
Here's an irresponsible and completely off topic technique told to me by Eddy Irvine in his Ferrari (yeah, shameless namedrop ): Launch it to the red in 1st, slip it to neutral and boot your right foot until flames roar outta the exhaust, then slam it into 3rd. Giggle at will...
AWD is expensive in maintanence. Yes, it is safe to ride AWD, but even in FWD you can avoid any problems if you drive safe.
Here snow does not fall so strong like you expect in Poland or in Eastern Europe. Even if it falls, the guys clean it so quickly, that I regret they work so fast because I like snow and here I just can't find a place to ride with challenges.