Well, just got back home from an unexpected drinking session, with an 80CHF fine.
My crime: Well, I left work and had a few drinks. Coudln't very well drive home so I parked the car and came out of the pub around 7.30-8pm. Went to get the tram/train home. Punched in my postcode at the machine at the tramstop and got the ticket.
Got the tram into central ZH but decided to have a couple of pints in the new Paddy Reilly's (replacing the Dubliner).
Came out at half eleven and went to the HB to continue my journey on the train home. Got on the train and got checked. Our frienldy ticket control girl pointed out that my ticket had expired at 21:20 (it's now 23:40) and there was a Zuschlag. Ok, fair enough. I had assumed that the ticket would be valid all evening but if I have to pay a bit extra for being a pisshead on the way home, I guess I have to (it IS Switzerland after all and I should know better after being here so long).
How much? 80 CHF. Wait a minute .... isn't that the same as not having a ticket at all? Yes, Soooo: I don't have a valid ticket (2 hrs out of date) but I'm being fined the same as if I didn't have a half tax abo, hadn't bothered buying a ticket AT ALL and actually had sat in first class instead of second class.
Paid my 80CHF and asked if this was a 'universal' ticket. "Yes". 'So I could go and sit in first class then?' Errrr, "Yes". So went to first class :-)
I saw the ticket collector again in first class. She walked past me so I reminded her that there was the possiblilty that I had lost the ticket in between my original lowly second class seat (that I thought I'd paid for) and the first class carriage and there was thus a possiblity that she could charge me yet another 80CHF for another innocent mistake. I got a and she walked on ...... Point made, I think.
I don't know how to feel. Once I'd have been incredibly pissed off. Now I think I should apply some logic to the situation. Clearly, in the future I should seriously give some consideration to either:
(a) Never bothering to buy tickets, don't renew my halftax abo and always sit in first class. Pay the fine when it happens as if, on average if I use the train all the time, I'll still come out on top.
or
(b) Drive home, drunk as a skunk. In my experience there's way less chance of being stopped for drink driving than a petty ticket infringement.
Thank you and goodnight. By the way, the new Paddy Reilly's isn't a bad pub but they need to get their food service sorted.
I used to always do your option A, and made sure i sat in first class. That was a few years ago and they've got a bit smarter since then. These days I buy a ticket.
The 2 hour/24 hour thing is standard here - you've been here long enough to know better . Bear in mind that in most countries the trip you just did would be considered two journeys, each requiring a separate ticket, therefore costing twice as much.
I actually think that the 24 hour ticket is a nice option as a return because you can go wherever you want (within the zones on your ticket) for the whole 24 hours.
Are you sure you hadn't just had a skinful and forgot?
Mark
P.S. I think you are going to cop some flack from the others on this one :-)
My missus got done for.......buying the wrong ticket to the right destination recently. Missing out the triangle on the machine and saving 10% on the ticket by mistake also gets you no sympathy.
And the train goes to the same destination, are you supposed to analyse which route it takes (as the trains are similar and the journey time is the same?
FWIW I used to travel around on the trams on a Klassenwechsel for a laugh. Got checked a few times and all they look at is the timestamp I think that's 1,10 or something
1) 24hour ticket, going anywhere you want in the zones? Are you talking about bus/tram, or does this apply to rail too? Does this mean you can go back and forth multiple times on SBB?
2) Triangle on the machine <10%????
or perhaps these rules and the two hour rule only apply in Zurich??
the triangle is a code available on the Zurich ticket machines used to allow the same code to be used for a destination with 2 routes. I mean, you only want to get to your destination anyway...more fool you if you go via Mongolia
It's really very simple - in fact one of the few things in this country that is. A ticket is valid for all forms of transport (tram, bus, train, ferry) within a given area. If you want a single ticket just to go somewhere then this is valid two hours. Of course, if you can get back in 2 hours then you can use this as a return. If you want a return ticket this is valid for 24 hours. Of course you could also do multiple trips with it, since it is valid for the whole day.
It kind of makes a lot more sense if you think about it - the ticket collectors don't have to check where you are coming from or going to, they just check if your ticket is marked for the zone you are currently in, and check when it expires. That's all!
Ok, well I understand it works within a city or a kanton for which such tickets are available, but still have my doubts about trips between kantons (crossing the border more than twice in a 24hour period on an SBB train for example).
Also, my kanton (Neuchatel) does not offer such 24hr tickets, they only work for the bus and our one tram line. (Unless you order a city to city ticket when going to Neuch with SBB I guess).
Sorry, my comments above were for the Zurich network - "long" distance is another matter. But Gav was drunk and ticketless in Zurich, hence the whole two hour / 24 hours / one trip / two trip thing.
I remember reading some time ago about a chap who bought an off peak ticket into London, (ie for travel after 9.00am ) . He took a London bound train at 9.15am only to be done by the conductor for traveling with an invalid ticket, because the train he was actually on was the 8.50am which was running 20mins late! . Youv'e gotta laugh eh , . Take the car at least you know where you are.
Allways check your train no matter how much of a rush your in! Cost me 80 francs for getting on the wrong one which went strait through my town. So frustrating, i wouldn't pay the fine or accept the ticket untill after my stop it was the only protest i could get away with.
That's the problem with the various sets of rules here - they are aimed at preventing law abiding people ever thinking of stepping out of line. However, they aren't at all effective at deterring people who don't give a toss about the law and are prepared to flout authority.
I see people regularly dodging rail tickets. You can see them hanging aroudn the exits and doing a once-over of the carriage before the train moves off. Somehow I don't think the ticket checks catch too many of them.
Pretty much the same goes for all those speed cameras dotted about the place. Die-hard speeders know where they are and proceed to tear around the rest of the roads with abandon, slowing down when there's a camera ahead. Just about the only people who ever get caught by the cameras are those who inadvertantly stray over the limit.
I think that sooner rather than later there's going to have to be a rethink here about the mass of petty rules and an affort made to beef up policing of real problems rather than squashing the spirit out of the general public.
It's the horrible attitude that gets to me Gav. The man treat me like a real criminal and even when one of the passangers opposite me (a Swiss man) tried to stick up for me saying it was a genuine mistake the inspector just told him "well if your so much of a gentleman you pay the fine!" The biggest frustration was over my own stupidity but the S5 and the S9 alternate sometimes between platform 24 and 25 and leave within 2 mins of each other.
The other thing that made me really furious was when i went into head office to explain the situation and why i didn't want to pay the fine, they said the boss was on holiday, when asked when he would be back they said "dont know" and there was nothing i could do about it anyway.
After recieving the final demand i went over to my small local office to reluctantly pay. I told my story to the very young women behind the desk and she just waved the fine and charged me the 18 sfr for the paper work you could have knocked me down with a feather! Of course i was glad but i just couldn't understand why she had the authority to wave the fine and those in head office didn't.
There are very few grey areas in Switzerland it's black or white with nothing inbetween.
I have a year pass but I went ONE STOP out of my zone (honest mistake). My bad luck that the ticket guy turned up. I confidently flashed my card....well you guessed it. I was explaining to him that not once I have travelled without ticked and it was not fair to slap me with CHF 80 fine. Guy was on a power trip and was loving it for nailing another foreigner!
Btw I have seen the suckers let off ladies with just a verbal warning.
Now I have a simple rule...everytime they ask me for the ticket I act as if I don't have it. They get all "turned on"...just as they start asking me my details I pull out the card :-) The dissapointment on their face is worth the drama :-)
I once had a bike puncture and didnt have enough change for a ticket fo r my bike on the train. The inspectors were actually sympathetic. If you either act disingenuous, or confused, they can be flexible. Wind them up and they are less so.
I've been busted three times too, all for different reasons. I've always had a ticket, but the wrong kind it would seem. I can't stand the boogers.
The one that really got me was the night-ticket thing. For eight years before Switzerland i've been living in countries where a monthly ticket is a 24hr a day ticket. So on the way back from the pub i got a night train, assuming my monthly was good enough. That wasn't too pleasant...
(we need an angry face that's baring teeth, rather than just looking unhappy)
Something similar happened to me one night - I got to the station and bought a ticket, got on the train and then got checked and asked for the additional night-ticket. I pointed out that I just bought a ticket (not 5 mins before) from a machine that said it was valid from now until the next morning.
Luckily, the inspector took pity and let me get off at the next station and pay the 5CHF zuschlag there. That was one of the rare times here when an official has cut some slack.
The Zuschlag is for sure pretty confusing. In ZH at any rate, it's not even clear how you get a suitable ticket since no desks are open at that time of night and none of the ticket machines include the cost of the Zuschlag if you buy a normal ticket.
There used to be a sticker on all the machines in the HB giving the '*168' information but every machine I've seen recently has had the stickers scraped off. Bad news if you haven't committed the code to memory since the only way to buy tickets at that time of night is from the machines.
There is some way to get the more sophisticated touchscreen machines to give you a Nachtzuschlag ticket - but I've never had the patience to wade through all the screens. It took me long enough to figure out how to get a Tageswahlkarte out of them since I foolishly initially tried to use the English menu system. It's a bit easier to find in German.