Early stages of our move

Daily Life, Swiss News and General Topics
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I thought I'd share our thoughts regarding our recent short trip to Switzerland in the hope that the experience of others might help with the choices that need to be made.

We have in principle decided to leave the UK and retire to Switzerland in March next year. I am 45 and my wife is 32. The main reasons for the decision are tax and a real dissatisfaction with UK society, government and EU bureaucracy. I just don't feel I belong any more.

I've always loved the Swiss countryside and on the face of it society does appear to be more conservative and respectful of individual privacy. Crime is low and although the cost of living is high, quality of life appears to be very good indeed. Switzerland seems ideal.

However, there's no substitute for experience so we decided to take a few short reconnaissance trips. We flew to Geneva on Sunday, hired a car and stayed in Laussane until we returned to the UK on Thursday. We have decided we'd like to live in a French speaking Canton for the language and geographic location so confined our travels to Vaud, Valais and Fribourg. Actually we didn't spend much time in Vaud, except on the motorway and hotel.

Day 1 we drove to Sion and up into the mountains around Ormone, Lens and Crans. We really loved this area although Crans itself looks very commercial and primarily holiday homes and hotels. But on the way there the countryside was just beautiful. Sion and Sierre look like they have most usual facilities and are close enough to the higher areas to be convenient.

Day 2 we headed for Fribourg and drove to Bulle and Gruyere. Gruyere really is beautiful but again a big tourist draw. Hardly surprising many people would want to visit such a beautiful area. We then took the road (not motorway) to Fribourg and then drove the other side of the city to Romont and then back on the motorway to Lausanne. Fribourg is very beautiful (where isn't in Switzerland?) but I prefer the more mountainous terrain of Valais.

Day 3 we head to Martigny and a little further to the Val d'Bagnes. Then up the mountain to Verbier which is worth doing just for the fantastic zig-zag road. Verbier was quite a surreal experience. Brilliant sunshine, 20C and a virtually deserted village of chalets and shops. No snow on the mountains but still very beautiful. Couldn't live there though as it is really a holiday resort, but good to see out of season.

So we ran out of time without having explored much of Vaud. Maybe we'll do so in a few weeks when we return. But having spoke to a few estate agents it seems that nearly all the properties in not in the valley in Valais are chalets and if you want something older and bigger then Vaud would be a better choice. Certainly searches on the more popular real estate sites would confirm that. If we lived in Valais we'd probably rent for a while whilst searching for the right home.

My wife is particulary concerned about the language and making friends. It's an easier decision for me but she is younger and is a bit more apprehensive about the move. Although we intend to brush up on our (very) rusty French, it would be nice to make contact with other British folk especially in our first year. This is one of the reasons I joined this forum and I've asked my wife to do so too. She may be along later

Anyway, thanks for listening and hope these thoughts were not too boring. We just need a little friendly help and guidance.

2
Well, hello. Something stood out from your post and I wasn't sure what until I realised you'd written about your disaffection for the UK: I wonder, does your wife feel the same way? I don't wish to pry, but if she's worried about the move then make sure she's certain it's what she wants. There are many couples where one partner follows the other (usually female following male) and it may seem the grass is greener, but there's shit in every field.

If you don't have the language, you'll find it difficult to make contact with society. It's a long road: don't expect friends and happiness immediately. Are you prepared for the isolation? Are you being attracted to Switzerland or 'pushed' from the UK? Consider your needs from your environment and be wary of rose-tinted specs. It's a lovely place here but there are many downsides, not least alienation for a while.

There are, of course, lots of people on this Forum who'll have been in similar positions: use our collected wisdom! Good luck

3
Very wise words Uncle Max and we have already or are currently considering all the issues you have raised. I don't think either of us have rose-tinted specs and I fully understand that isolation is the biggest risk.

I don't want to stay in England any more and have considered residence in several countries over the last few years. There is a huge financial benefit to relocating to Switzerland but several other countries can offer the same saving. That on its own wouldn't be enough.

Being half Italian most of my family live in Milano so for the first time in my life I could live within a few hours drive of them. We would move our boat to the South of France which is around 5 or 6 hours drive. We would keep a house in the UK and would return once every couple of months. We wouldn't be cutting all ties with the UK.

But, the language barrier is a concern. However, we have nearly 6 months to go and we intend to use that time wisely in terms of study.

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I wish you every success in your future move. You mentioned that you were looking in the valais, I am sure that they are not allowing foreigners to buy at present but this might have changed.I am sure that one of the EF members will correct me .

We live half the year in Vaud & half in the UK (2 at UNI). You can get much more for your money property wise away from Lake Leman. We are near Yverdon so have Lake Neuchatel.

You will find it tough without the language, Mr Smackerjack has never got to grips with it. Just persevere and you will be fine. The tough days always feel better when you look out of the window and see the beautiful views

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Thank you.

I believe that the restriction on foreigners buying property in Valais doesn't apply if you have Swiss residency. We are intending to apply for a class B-CE permit so should be fine.

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I love the Valais, but I come for a month or so, and spend it all in the mountains.

I am not sure how much you would enjoy living there, assuming that you are an urban couple. The page on Major Swiss Cities on the All About Switzerland site give some population figures. Sion has about 23,000 inhabitants, versus 178,000 for Geneva, 116,000 for Lausanne and 49,000 for Biel/Bienne (bilingual town).

Not sure how much this matters to you, but it may help you in making your decision.

7
Why don't you move to Locarno? then you can be very close to Italy and leave your boat in Liguria, then the boat would only be 3 hours away. (or you could also move to Lugano, but personally, I prefer Locarno! )

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Hello!

I've been living in Zürich for about 2 years now. I found the following article helpful, explaining that reality is more complex than the image . Looks to me that you've thought things through quite well already. Indeed the social barriere will in my opinion likely be the biggest hurdle. The obvious "Joining a club, attending a course, taking up a (team) sport" etc is the best way to mitigate that. It's always the newcomer who has to take the first steps.

I would choose a place to live with an international feel / expat community at least nearby (say less than 20 min travel), because integrating with the Swiss is something which will realistically take you years. This is not meant to scare you, but to clarify a bit what you can expect.

Another tip...have a look at the book "Beyond Chocolate" ("Understanding Swiss Culture") from Margaret Oertig-Davidson.

Okay..here comes the good news; Switzerland (Zürich) is very clean, safe and a very well organised place to live. Life in general is expensive, but good. Swiss people are very friendly, polite, respectful and at the same time very private as well. A Swiss person will only invite you over to his home if he knows you really-really-really well.

When it comes to housing - as always you pay for location-location-location. So living at the sunny side of well known lakes (eg the north sides of Lac Leman, Zurich Lake, Zuger Lake) is much more expensive than living at the shores of many smaller yet often equally beautiful lakes.

My girlfriend loves Zurich and for the next few years we wouldn't want to live anywhere else. In case we would decide to move elsewhere, the maximum distance to Zurich would have to be less than 20 minutes. Zurich feels refreshingly international, compared to many other Swiss cities! You could apply the same principle to say Geneva in choosing where to live; Switzerland is indeed a small country and the wide choice and variety in goods (esp. in supermarkets) and services that you are used to in the UK, is generally harder to get in Switzerland.

Last yet not least: find yourself a good real estate agent to give professional advice, on top of all the messageboard tips&tricks - who will work to fully understand and address your and your partner's requirements, wishes and drivers!

The other side of the medal in our view... Zürich/Switzerland is less colourful, has less convivial atmospehere and feels generally small and a bit low-energy Swiss take precision and adhering to rules to the extreme --especially UK and US expats have great difficulty with this, Dutch have in the mean time got used to lots of rules, parking & speeding fines, regulations, etc. Swiss are more reserved and difficult to integrate with - with fellow expats it's easier to make friendships Nevertheless we really like it here in Switzerland, and in 20min we're at the airport so the rest of Europe is within easy reach! Good luck with the plans and have a deep-dive at this forum (use the extensive search functionality) as this is for sure the best forum existing about living in CH!

Have a look here - the "7 myths about living of Switzerland " - If a person (or a country) very strongly and almost emotionally tries to deny an attribute...than often at least there is an association or a hint of truth in it. Same counts here :-)

9
Great info, thanks

Location is the biggest dilemma of all. If we lived within 20 minutes of Laussane we'd be closer to an ex-pat community and Geneva airport than we would in Valais, but we'd be further away from the spectacular scenery we love.

I should add we are not huge sociliasers, but it would certainly help to know a few English speaking people soon after we arrive. We also live out in the sticks now, so are not bothered about having few neighbours.

It maybe that we rent somewhere closish to Lausanne initially and maybe look to buy somewhere further afield as we settle in.

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Hi Maximus Brutus,

It looks like you are have made the same decision as my wife and I.

We feel the same about the UK.

i did a fair amount of research about where in CH we would like to live.

My first choice was Geneve as I do have like you a very rusty level of French. Also from a business perspective it made more sense.

My second choice was Ticino, Lugano, Locarno.

I took a week looking around Locarno, Montreux, Lusanne and Geneve.

a week is not very long when making a decision of where to live etc but i believe you can get a good feeling from somewhere faily quickly. i am sure you know what I mean.

I must say that everywhere was beautiful.

In the end I made the decision that Locarno was the place for us.

I have found an ideal House with fantastic views and I know we will feel very comfortable there.

From a logistics point of view, its only a 1 hour drive to Milano, 1hr 20min to the airport. I its think 2.5hrs to Zurich and 2.5 to 4hrs to Geneve.

I have also been told the train service there is good.

If everything works out for us, we will have bought our property by Xmas and make our permanent move in the next 12 months.

We are keeping a home in the UK too.

I'm not so concerned about isolation etc, it would be nice to meet expats and make new friends. Like you we like to spend time with our friends but its not a matter of life and death. As it is my wifes best friends are spread around the rest of Europe and from Ch we will actually be closer to them.

It seems we have the same ideas and I noticed that you and I are nearly the same age as are our wives.

Good luck with you plans, it would be great to hear how you get on.

I have been reading this forum for a week or so and found that there are a lot helpful people and much useful information and answers to our questions.

Best wishes

Stuart.