Unfortunately, they are full at 5P but have space at 4P. They recommend we register him for 4P as he has to also learn German on top of French (which he does not speak either) in 5P.
Take the lower grade. It will give him time to adjust for everything...no, Italian is not an option at that age. It might be later on. Not sure about Vaud but in Zurich streaming happens at the end of grade 6. So any additional time he has to catch up on everything done differently before that, the better. Don' worry too nuch now about later. The beginning will be hard enough for him! Make it as easy as possible.
Only you can make the decision but here are a few things to keep in mind.
-transport by public bus is generally not a big issue here unless he has to traverse a particularly dangerous route. Kids are expected to be independent and walk or take buses to school from age 4.
-keep on mind he will have to to be perfectly fluent in French and very good German by age 12 for the streaming if higher education is sought. Streaming at age 12 determines this and high scores for French, German and maths are imperative.
-if he struggles later on because of languages they will probably automatically suggest repeating a year.
-boys tend to be a bit less mature at that age. May want to take into account his maturity.
-30 June, or is it 31 July, I think now is cut off for dates so will be at the youngest end of the class
For sure put him in 4P. He doesn't know the language and unless he's really big for his age, he's always going to be little. If he's coming from another school system, he is not going to 'repeat' much - and even if it is familiar content, it's in another language...
Also bear in mind that in Switzerland there seems to be little to no stigma to repeating a year, unlike in some other countries. Immigrating and learning a new language are considered perfectly reasonable grounds to take that extra year.
We actually asked for our kids to repeat a year when we came. Best decision we made. In that first year they could not really follow anything, but could concentrate on learning the language. Down the road, being a little more mature when choosing paths for further schooling will only help. Put him in 4P.
Don't worry, it's normal to be 1 year "behind" in CH. Most swiss guys will waste one year at 18-years-old doing the military so he can catch up there. Also having to take the bus while his schoolmates hang out at school/village could actually worsen long-term outcomes due to lower integration (OK maybe it's overkill but you get the gist). Another plus is better language skills, possibly much better in the case of French.
A spot for 5P ended up opening in Collège des Pâquis.
This allows my son to attend school lunches (open to 5P and older). Alas only Thursday and Friday have available spots for now. We also managed to get him into a bit of aftercare till 4:30 PM three days a week (Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday).
So now I am looking for someone to help outside those times, that is:
Lunch: Monday and Tuesday
Lunch and Afternoon care on Wednesdays
After school care on Fridays
He would need intense French tutoring so hopefully a French speaking help would achieve both managing the gaps as well as helping with the language.
If you happen to know anyone around St. Sulpice who might be interested, please let me know. Thank you!
Have you asked at the school about how other parents manage this? Sometimes several parents get together and swap lunch- and after-school care duties. Some schools have names of the contact persons who help organise such exchanges.
Dear Miu, thank you for your post, I found it very helpful and informative as we are also moving to the area soon and need to decide on the right level for our kids.
My daughter is born Nov 2008 and is fluent in German but speaks no French. She is finishing up first year Gymnasium in Germany (grade 5 - the separation here is done 2 years earlier than in Switzerland), and I'd really like her to end up in the higher education stream here too.
My question is, how realistic is it for a kid this age to pick up enough French to qualify ? Many thanks!
I spent a year in France when I was 15/16, starting with no French and ending up at the level of an average 13 year old (though was top of my class in three subjects), so I would figure at least two in a French-only environment (I lived in a French family who made me do dictation nightly, both parents teachers, and who spoke no English).
Yes, Tom is not the only one. It is realistic if - and that's the big if - both the parents and the child(ren) embrace the opportunity to be in another language environment.
During the "soon", i.e. between now and when school starts, your daughter and you should be learning French, every single day (with one clear day off per week), in chunks. Online, in a course at a school, with a personal tutor, in frequently meeting mother-tongue French-speakers and... alone, with any method(s) you know to work for each of you (whether that's flash-cards, or an app, jotting down notes, etc.).
Even for those of mother-tongue, being in the academic stream of school here in Switzerland demands this kind of pro-active, self-motivation and discipline, both by the child and with support from parents. If your child has those qualities, and if you will be with her along the way, to support her, then YES, she can learn enough French to catch up. However, you would do her a favour if you get the basics in over the summer... so that you and she will be able to demonstrate to the SCHOOL - against some scepticism - that she is striding ahead in leaps and bounds, and can put in the effort.
I once heard of someone who kept all the written jotters of the exercises, and who made weekly tape-recordings of their child's language progress. What tipped the balance, to allow that child to get into the academic stream, was not the actual level of language when he started, but the evidence of his ability to progress significantly over a relatively short period of time.
Good luck, and well done for looking out for your daughter's best interests!
If I got her age right, she probably has one year at most, maybe less to pass the screening for the gymnase stream here. I think for even the most brillant, that is asking an awful lot. The school will probably almost certainly suggest repeating a year in my view, so best to be prepared for that. German will work to her favour in the screeing but she needs to get up to top caliber in French asap to have a chance.
If the girl is offered the chance to repeat a year, grab it!
Unlike in some other countries, this carries no stigma here in Switzerland. We are used to all the questions about language, and it is considered a completely normal thing for a child moving into another language to repeat a year.
Am I misunderstanding? OP originally asked for placement advice. 4p or 5p. I think it was a unanimous recommendation for 4p with detailed explanation. OP chooses 5p anyway. This could seemingly have long term repercussions if it doesn’t work out.
Can the child just repeat 5p if he has problems. How many times can a person repeat a level? Can a person keep repeating until their scores and knowledge are enough to end up in the higher education stream?
I have an almost two year old and am curious about such things.
It's not the same in every canton, but generally they can repeat twice. However, repetition is something that is carefully considered, and is usually only recommended if the child just needs a little more time, more maturity, is intelligent and likely to succeed. If the prognosis is that the child will keep struggling, then individual learning goals will be set instead of repeating.
That's part of the beauty of a forum, isn't it? One can collect a lot of opinions, and take on board the parts one likes, and just reject the rest and make one's own decision.
If, later, 5p seems to be a bad choice, OP can come back and ask for more advice. Some people will then be nasty and say "told you so" (entirely unnecessarily) and others will set about really reading what she is then saying, and give a new batch of advice. For her to take or leave.
We don't know OP, after all, and only she knows her own child. Our advice may have been far off the mark, given her child's personality and interests and motivation, etc. The child might thrive in 5p, for reasons beyond what the parent wrote here, and which we cannot know.
EDIT: Either way, if OP later comes back to share her experiences, good and bad, and solutions, then she will be contributing to the next round of people learning.