Fine the parents if the children aren't fit for school?

Family, Education, Health and Pets
1
The city of Basel has moved a step closer to introducing heavy fines for parents whose children regularly come to school sleepy, hungry or with homework not done.

Report by Swiss Info:

http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/feedbac...5&sid=10287335

Most Zurich adults interviewed by the Blick seem to agree with the idea, so is Zurich next? Do Zurich school already fine parents for taking students out of school without a reasonable excuse- such as vacations?

http://www.blick.ch/multimedia-cente...stChannelID=52

2
It would be hard to implement though.

3
Yes, I think that it would be difficult to implement too.

It is very unfair on teachers and the child, not to mention other children, to send needy kids to school, and expect them to learn.

I do think that it is a good idea to make parents culpable, if anywhere could do it fairly I would trust the Swiss. It is only possible if the Swiss are prepared to provide when the parents can't. They would have to have some kind of meal service, and facilities such as a staffed media centre/ library where children can do their homework. offering them somewhere to sleep goes too far fro me, that's the time to querstion whether they should be fostered.

They do provide these things in the US. However it would be very tough to implement fines. University students in the US have become the new indentured servants, many are sleep deprived, from over work.

I believe that British, like the Swiss have already started fines for parents who take kids outof school on vacation.

4
it would be more productive, in my opinion, to accept the fact that not every child is going to be good in academics. if a kid is not interested in learning at school, i say so be it. the idea of fines is lame brained - just like the idea of rewarding chidren with money for good grades. also, there are plenty of brilliant adults who were awful students; stanley kubrick and albert einstein spring to mind.

5
This made me see red fine the parents sorry but i blame the Swiss school system for kids being tired read this please School timetable is terrible don`t know if i am coming or going

My daughter is tired when she goes to school not because of me, but because of her timetable . I put her to bed at 7.30pm everynight, but because of her wake up pattern she sometimes goes to sleep straight away, or she can`t because she isn`t tired (sorry i hope you know what i am trying to say ). A few weeks ago i got a phone call from her teacher could i go and pick her up from school because she had a headace due to being tired. I told the teacher it was because of her school timetable, and to my shock she agreed it was stupid , but it was not her that made it up. Back in the UK the kids go to school at 9am and finish at 3.15pm this makes it easier for the child`s sleeping pattern .

As for homework the teacher tell`s the kid`s what they have to do we had problems the first few week`s because my daughter kept forgetting what she had to do (by the time she had gotten home 30 mins walk), so then the teacher would write it down the next day that she had forgotten to do all her homework. I rang the teacher and asked why they just didn`t write it down so the parent`s knew what the homework was, and she said we do this in the second class .

Off to apply for a bank loan:-(

6
Just a thought... But if we follow the natural progression of this, then, perhaps it can extend to the work place..

An employer can fine either you, your partner or your parents if you turn up for work tired, hungover or not having prepared your presentation...

I'd better get saving then...

7
I suppose you have a point, If all of the above happen (but rarely) then I it would probably be disregarded. However if it happens often, I think that you would get fired or miss promotion, so you do get fined in a way.

The fines are not supposed to fine for academic achievement but for readiness to learn. However there are many employers that know an employee is constantly tired or hungover but won't ask questions if the employeeproduces good work. Translating that attitude to school, If a child is performing well academically and is well behaved, but is obviously tired and hungry, will the parents still be fined?

I would still fine them, as the child is still not acheiving thier potential. Parents poften don't understand unless it translates to money.

I never liked the school timetable, I thought that it was designed to keep a parent at home. however my views are extreme for many, I believe is year round school, so that the teacher has lots of time to demonstrate concepts in concrete terms like practical situations.

Not writing homework down till the second grade , made me laugh, it is a typical Swiss answer, they treat learning as serialist- you can't jump steps you must go from A to B to C- not A to C. The method of teaching academic subjects is very prescriptive. I suppose it is based on Piaget which and somewhat outdated.

I have forgotten the word for schools that deter children from higher education like University, because the needs of the labour market call for more vocational schools. Does anyone know it?

8
Hoppy, regarding post no.3 There is an infrastructure in place for children to have school meals and after school clubs where they can do supervised homework. The parent has to apply for these places and pay for them.

If all these things were provided as a matter of course in the school and paid for by the Kanton then the whole school and social system in Switzerland would have to be revised.

To be honest I prefer the Swiss individual way, than the Nanny state in Great Britain.

9
I prefer open schools where parents are activley involved with children's learning. I am lucky my child attends a school in an affluent which seems to be open round the clock. The car park is always at least half full with parents taking classes or participating in supporting their children's education. The sschool taxes are hefty, the school looks more like a mini university. 3 miles down the road it is a different story. Parents are stuggling to survive. Some neglect thier parental responsibilities, which brings down the whole class and embitters the parents who are making sepcial effort to have send kids to school prepared to learn. I don't think that parents should have kids if they cannot provide for them. But when it happens it is not the kid's fault, where necessary the provision should be made free of charge.

10
Hoppy looking at your profile it say's your in the US and your children at a fee paying school. I was just going to respond with quite a long post but realise it wouldn't be a decent pro and con discussion if your living in a different continent.

11
No, not a fee paying school, just very high school taxes.

My children have experienced British, Swiss and US schools. most of it in Da Schwiiz ! Between them they attended about 10 different schools in Switzerland in 2 different Kantons. I taught, but not in the state schools.

12
I had my daughter in the afternoon programm 1 day a week, and i was not impressed when she would come home and i asked to see her homework, it was always done wrong then i would say ok come on let`s sit down together we need to correct this (always trying to keep her spirits up ) she would argue with me that it was correct and refused to redo it with me so i pulled her out after a few times she had been. I refuse to pay for something that was supposed to be helping my daughter and in the end only made things worse

13
A common mistake in the teaching of mathematics is the way they do subtraction- how they 'borrow' the other thing that my kids had a problem with was the way the numbers are said e.g. drei und funfzig. They constantly reversed the numbers.

At least they teach in metric.

You are right to pull your daughter out but I hope that you told them why. They should provide competent paid staff.

My husband and I volunteered in 3 miles away in a needy area. The teacher could not cope, she often gave 5th graders dough to play with. By comparison, in my daughter's school they were advanced 2 years above national average. My daughter's teachers are available before school and after, they are not paid extra, these classes are well attended.

I have seen similar in Switzerland, not just rich and poor, but rural farm community and city.

14
It was spelling mistakes, and my daughter sometimes writes her letters back to front which anyone could see a mile off, and the person checking her homework said it was ok sorry but

15
There are different schools of thought on teaching reading and writing. So it could be someting to do with their particular philosophy.

To me a spelling mistake must be pointed out, and they must practice spelling it the standard way. I wouldn't labour it to the point of it detracting from the pleasure of reading or writing though, or in a manner that humiliates a child.

This suprises me though I thought the Swiss were hot on spelling tests. I believe in spelling tests, there are lots of ways to test.

With mathematics it is more clear cut.

16
Fining parents might deter them taking kids out of school for vacation during term time. As for tired and hungry kids I'm sure the relevant authorities are smart enough to figure out whether that's because the kid is being consistently neglected. But don't kid yourself that imposing a fine will turn bad parents into good parents.

17
My kids are never hungry, and my daughter is only tired because of her timetable , i am not a bad parent because my daughter is tired sometimes at school.

18
I wasn't suggesting you were. There are loads of reasons why kids might be tired and hungry. As a parent I know that only too well. What I meant was I'm sure the authorities will be able to separate out where there is genuine neglect and impose a fine accordingly. As the article said, my guess it will be a last resort. The issue is whether that will be an effective way to stop the neglect. My vote says no. There's more to parenting than going through the motions.

19
Really? I wouldn't count on it. Pray your kid(s) don't end up crossing a rookie and/or power hungry principal that doesn't like the kid(s), the parent(s), or both.

I find it hard to believe that this problem (where neglect is the root cause) is so pervasive that such broad based action is necessary. A good administration should be able to handle these incidents in absence of a "law" to fall back on. Seems a little misdirected and heavy handed to me.

20
So all parents have to do in Switzerland is provide 'teachable' children to the schools and otherwise leave them alone, great!

The way parents are kept out of school, at least in our village, really gets me going. I can understand how teachers don't like parents controlling them 24/7, but just a tiny little bit of information on what exactly they are up to would be nice. I am not complaining about the standard of teaching, which seems to be ok, it's just the attitude towards parents that I am not happy with (in case you hadn't noticed). On Friday I was more or less thrown out of the schood building because I took the liberty of entering the building and looking for my son's lost lunchbox in the 'lost & found' box and his sports bag. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr