French Grammar Rule help!

I'm a little stuck on understanding something.

We include 'de' when an adjective precedes a verb and when a noun precedes a verb.

These two sentences:

Ca prend trop de temp (It takes too much time)

Ca fait un grand difference (It makes a big difference)

Why aren't we including 'de' between grand and difference?

'Ca prend trop de temps?: not quantifiable, it just takes time, you don't know how much.

Ca fait une grande différence: it is specific, there is just 1 difference, no more, you basically have to pick between 'de' and 'un(e)', you can't use both at once like you are suggesting.

Because French is an impossible language. Its always taught under the guise that there are standard rules that should be applied. But of course in reality, there number exceptions seem to outweigh the number of rules.

As Aline has said already, your issue is one of quantity. "A big difference" is understood as one "thing" whereas "too much time" is subject to interpretation or context.

If in English your sentence defines a definite quantity or character, the "de" is generally not needed.

Now...think of this example: Il n'y a pas trop de difference.

What is difference between this and your example? The difference is that in your example, you are declaring that there is indeed a big difference. In the above example, it is being declared that there is a difference, but there is no indication by count or quality what that difference is.

But 'il n'y a pas trop de difference' means 'there's not much ( or there's not a lot) of difference' which to me does give an indication of count. Not much difference to my mind means a small amount of difference whereas a big difference is a large amount of difference.

Your example is not really a very good one to illustrate your point.

I'll try and find a better one when I have a bit more time later.

That might have been one of my points...in French...it just depends (poorly made point). If the sky is blue and it happens to be Thursday you would say something one way and it it was cloudy you would say it another. Its infuriating and right there with OP in this case.

One thing I used to find that may help, is imagine if you inserted the word in the equivalent English sentence. In this case, the first example would be 'it takes too much of time', which is at least understandable, simliar to 'beaucoup de temps' = 'lots of time'. Conversely, 'a big of difference' could never make sense. A lot of difference, too much [of] difference, a little [of] difference could all make some sense.

Not a lot of sense, but some. Hah! Another example.

It's remarkable similar to English, in fact.

No, it's not nearly as random as that. Here, we're talking about a quantity modifier versus an absolute modifier. Je veux une verre de vin, vingt litres d'essence, beaucoup d'argent, as opposed to une grande maison, une voiture neuve[1], etc. A quantity of something.

[1] Now, if someone can try and clarify when and why some adjectives precede, some follow, the noun, I'd like to see it. I've tried, and failed, to formulate rules to explain it. There are clearly some classes of modifier that take one way or the other, but in that example, why is it 'une voiture neuve' or 'une nouvelle voiture'? I know that either is correct, but that 'une neuve voiture' or 'une voiture nouveau' is not, and I'm happy enough that I won't make that sort of mistake, but I've never really been able to state exactly why.

Very tricky indeed, to place the adjective before/after the noun, here, a few pointers:

http://www.bertrandboutin.ca/Folder_..._place_adj.htm

Or for a summarized list:

http://www.francaisfacile.com/exerci...cais-21109.php

I was taught modifiers that describe "beauty, age, goodness, size" ("BAGS-words") go before, otherwise they go after.

une voiture neuve describes the state of the car, hence it goes before. there may also be a difference between collective nouns, but i believe the BAGS rule takes precedence.

btw, it's le verre ;-)

So which is it an example of, from those four types? Age? Then why not the same with nouvelle?

I could see that, potentially, a nouvelle voiture could refer to the fact that I'm getting a new (to me) car, but not a new (from the factory) one, but it's stil an age-related modifier. Similar with ancien/vieux/agé. I know which way round to put them, but not why, and the rule you mention, while useful, is not consistent, as far as I can tell.

Well I never.

Some examples:

Un nouvel hôpital va bientôt voir le jour

Un nouveau bâtiment va être érigé d'ici la fin de l'année

Je me suis installée en Suisse où j'ai commencé une nouvelle vie

J'ai appris un mot nouveau chaque jour pendant mon séjour à l'étranger

Murdpch est un homme vieux et cruel

Un vieil homme habite dans notre immeuble

Edith est une vieille femme de huitante sept ans

Une vieille femme nourissait les chats érrants du quartier

Une femme âgée habite seule dans cet immeuble

To the OP question:

1. assez, peu, beaucoup, trop, plus, moins - and their negation (pas assez, pas beaucoup, pas trop, etc.) are adverbs of quantity followed by " de/d'" before the noun they quantify in the following eg:

Paul a assez d' argent / n'a pas assez d'argent (has enough money, ....)

Il y a peu de sauce dans la salade

Nous avons beaucoup de livres à la bibiothièque /pas beaucoup de livres...

Il y a trop de mayonnaise dans la sauce.

2. In the sentence "une grande différence ", grande is an adjective that specifies "différence" and as such, in general precedes or follow immediately the noun without any conjonction like "de", eg:

Une grande bouteille , une jolie fille , un vieil homme, un forum intéressant, la grande porte , le petit chalet , etc...

This for the 2 first questions...hope its not more confusing...

Hi everyone! The problem here is that you are mistaking "adjectives" for "adverbs" and expressions of quantity. Grand(e) / neuf/ neuve are adjectives, so you never use the preposition "de" with them. But if you are using an expression of quantity, there you use "de": trop de / beaucoup de / un verre de /une grande quantité de ... and so on!

Hope it helps!