Geothermal drilling neighbour complaints..

Accomodation, House and Garden
1
We are doing a new build and have chosen to go with geothermal, even if the cost is higher upfront vs air heat pump. It's a much quieter system and will be less an issue for the neighbours to complain about, who first complained about the air heat pump system also. Now they complain about the drilling and how it can damage their building.

Its really disingenuous from those neighbours, since they themselves have a geothermal heat pump system..! Our building manager says they can not block the project with their complaint, we can be liable for the damage to their building however. I don't see how it can be damaged, since they are in fact quite far away and the nearest neighbours have no complaints and support my goal for silence.

I'm told they will need to bring in an engineer and provide an assessment of the damage before we begin, at their expense. I do like the fact all the expense if their silliness must be on their pockets and not mine. I'm also speaking with my building insurance company about cover for any damage to them which might occur due to the drilling. So it might be covered there also.

Anyone else experienced similar issues elsewhere in Switzerland?

2
Are the people doing the drilling insured?

3
How long will the drilling go on for?

Same question as above too- what happens if it does cause structural damage to a neighbour?

4
I will find out, however the complaint letter states that they will hole me liable for their damage and not the driller.

5
Thats a good question, how long does it take to drill a 220m hole? I will find out from the driller..

6
What sort of planning permission do you need I wonder.

7
In our case they dug our 120m holes, two of them, in three days from start to finish.

And them stating they will hold you responsible may not be in accordance with the law. I’m beginning to suspect they want something from you. Why not just ask what they want.

8
Sounds like an empty threat, you can only be held liable if you actually are.

Say you task a licensed fireworker(?) with holding a firework during 1. August on your property. Bad comes to worse and the rockets ignite the entire neighborhood.

Who's to be held responsible? Clearly the firework people, you employ specialists because they can be expected to know the ins and outs, regulations, and whatnot.

9
We have 3 houses within 100m of the two holes and had no complaints, the drillers then went to one of these houses and drilled their single hole for 2 days. We had no complaint, no feeling of movement or vibration through the ground.

As they are laying pipe as they drill I can’t see the process causing any severe damage through ground movements. It didn’t happen to us, it didn’t happen to our neighbour.

Oh, and bravo on deciding on going geothermal!

(Originally posted in wrong thread)

10
A house we used to own, which was built in 1984, had geothermal heating. We were not the original owners but were given a copy of the study that was done with detailed drawings before the work began. There was no mention of the impact on nearby houses but then there were very few houses built near the house at the time ! At the time the only option might have been oil heating.

The heating unit (Viesmann) itself was inside the house so you could not hear anything from outside. Inside the house it was louder than the air/water unit (Stiebel Eltron) we had in a previous home which you could hear from outside but not a lot.

There are noise ratings for all units and if you place a unit outside and it falls within the requirements, you shouldn't have a problem.

If there is anything I have learned about living in Switzerland is that neighbours like to complain about EVERYTHING ! The best scenario here is not to have any neighbours. We have just one now which is still one too many.

11
I suspect they are covering their backsides as the say. You can an imagine they had a BBQ, a friend or friend told them a horror story about the neighbours excavating a large hole in the garden and it causing subsidence and well 2+2 must equal 5 no.

Although all that said, maybe they read this report.

https://geothermal-energy-journal.sp...517-017-0067-y

It says these things can and have happened.

Change in hydraulic, geophysical, and geochemical parameters caused by the hydraulic connection of separate aquifers.

Soil settlements or dried-up wells due to falling groundwater levels (Grimm et al. 2014; Lowe 2012).

Destabilising effect of ascending groundwater flows on the backfilling (AD-HOC-AG Geologie 2011).

Flooding of adjacent buildings and infrastructure by artesian discharge.

Swelling or subrosion processes of sulphate- and salt-bearing layers, leading to subsidence or ground uplifts.

The formation of sinkholes or the loss of drilling equipment in karst areas (Butscher et al. 2010).

Creation of new migration pathways for physical and chemical contaminants, such as organic anti-freeze liquids, diffusing chemicals in the backfilling material or contaminated drilling fluids (Klotzbücher et al. 2007; Santi et al. 2005).

Potential hazards for drilling teams and residents due to near-subsurface gas reservoirs (Sachs and Eberhard 2010).

High pollution vulnerability of groundwater in the area around contaminated sites.

Scary... make sure your contractor is insured, contact your insurance and make sure you are too. It is all too easy to be an expert in all sorts of fields these days. I know I used to work in IT, and it was full of experts who know a great deal about nothing.

12
The only neighbor we have for our rustico in Sigirino is a logging company, who is never there (I see them once a year or so), otherwise, next closest is 1km!

Great place for my daughter to hold RAVE parties!

Tom

13
Poor wildlife.

14
I would now be interested to know what kind of maintence has the bore-shaft needed since 1984? I assume all are, but it says it's a brine based system and I don't envision the hole needing any kind of maintenance.

15
I guess the "complaint" has been made in response to a planning application that you have submitted for this geothermal project. If it is, the German term is "Rechtsverwahrung" and it is quite normal. They simply want to be able to make a survey of the situation before the project starts to simplify any possible claim for damages afterwards. It doesn't change the liability situation. You are ultimately anyway responsible for damages caused by work on your property which affects third parties. The contractor you are using should be insured.

16
This is what I suspect also. One neighbour was a really aggressive in his note wanting to involve his lawyer, etc. The other neighbour was more normal about his complaint at least. Both neighbours already have geothermal heating, so the thought they want to block me just rubs me the wrong way frankly. The crack inspection beforehand is their responsibility for both task and cost. So they should proceed. One claims they received cracks after another geothermal bore was drilled below them (nearer then mine). He says they are fighting them for claims now. But I suspect since he had a new building, less than a year old, cracks are sure to show up as the building settles. Then by his fighting them for cracks issues, tells me he can't prove the drilling caused the cracks and he's got a lost case.

Even so, I shall sleep soundly and quietly knowing my heating won't be funding any wars ever....

17
Keep dreaming.

Russia produces lots of metals, including precious metals but also nickel, which is used in many types of steel. And of course the power your pump runs on comes in part from nuclear plants, the uranium for which may well be Russian as it's among the top ten worldwide producers.

Russia's uranium production volume pales in comparison to Kazachstan's, though. Unfortunately this doesn't have that much of a good standing here either.

18
Calm down.

1st article is about Ground Source Heat Pumps are a closed loop system. So, article about Soil settlements or dried-up wells due to falling groundwater levels makes no sense for closed-loop systems, but it makes sense for open-loop systems.

The hydraulic connection of separate aquifers depends of 3 things, that 2 aquifers are separated by a nearly impermeable layer, that the drilling pierces this layer and that the drillers are incompetent enough to fail at sealing properly the well.

Karst cavities are risky even without drilling. Hopefully someone assessed this risk before any house was built. Drilling will not make collapse anything beyond that what would naturally happen.

@plm987sdf: you mentioned that two other neighbors have geothermal systems. Who designed the system? Usually, there's a local geologist/hydrogeologist that makes these calculations. Drillers only drill, they don't think. My guess is that the neighbor causing troubles is worried about the availability of water at the right temperature 10-20 years in the future. If too many geothermal installs in the same aquifer, they compete with each other and the efficiency of the systems might fall. But this is a worry when systems are 100-300m away. If they are far away no worries.

I'd ask first at the gemeinde/commune what they ask to give you a permit. Usually is the assessment made by the local expert. If you need a 2nd opinion, ex-colleagues work in a company with office in Aproz.

19
''Karst cavities are risky even without drilling. Hopefully someone assessed this risk before any house was built. Drilling will not make collapse anything beyond that what would naturally happen.''

When was the house built? You are aware that the Valais geology has changed so much in last 25 years- due to the melting of the permafrost- making the above much more problematic.

Several people high up in Insurance and Finance advised us not to buy in the Valais when we came- because they estimate that it is a region that will suffer more and more serious problem in the future due to permafrost melt.

20
More on Valais permafrost, usually found above 2,500m

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/busines...ncern/46145716