Giving birth UK or Switzerland

Family, Education, Health and Pets
41
I've had 1 child in the UK, and two here in Switzerland (one only 3 weeks ago). Whilst I have found everyone here very professional, I am glad I had my first in the UK. The whole process here seems very medical to me, in the UK I saw a midwife regularly, here it was a doctor. The midwife delivered my first, here it had to be a doctor. I can appreciate that this is very useful if there is a problem - but I have been very lucky and had normal pregnancies and births - so it has seemed over the top to me. It makes you feel like you are a patient - which, as your not ill, feels a bit odd to me.

I also found the time they expect you to stay in hospital here way too long - I was really bored. Couldn't wait to get home. I found the health visitor system in the UK better too - they came to visit me. They came after a few days - so by then I had had a go on my own - and therefore had some questions I could ask - and got some useful help. Here all the help is at the very beginning, where I wasn't really with it!

As I said, I've been lucky and only had good experiences - and have been impressed by the care I have received both here and in the UK.

42
Agreed Tom - first port of call should be GP - doctor on call would have either visited (YES they still do), or asked you to go to surgery, or to your NHS direct walk-in centre. A&E should never be the place to call/go for a stomach bug - and especially if you were concerned it might be typhoid or Cholera, or some African bug. They would probably give advice on the phone initially, to take diarolyte fluid/mineral replacement - then take a stool sample which will have to be sent to a lab to grow a culture - which can take 24 to 48 hours or even more depending on the bug. When it happened to me recently in the UK - the GP phoned me 24 hrs later to say I had Campylobactor, and that I had to go and get a prescription for antibiotics. I have to say I'd never dream of going to A&E for a stomach bug.

Some patients are hugely abusive to receptionists, nurses and doctors, even violent - so they do develop a very thick skin.

It sounds to me that no amount of re-assurance will help your wife feel better about the NHS, and that she is perhaps not too happy with living in the UK in general. For me, as a Swiss who felt very comfortable in England, the idea of coming to CH to have my babies just did not even cross my mind. England was my chosen adopted/adoptive home, and that was that. But yes, going home with a new baby after an emergency caesarian, without the support of my family, was hard work, especially as my OH often worked away from home for periods of time. Neighbours and friends rallyed around, and all was fine. No idea about your job and situation - but if she is not really comfortable in the UK, would you consider going to live in CH - it might be the only solution.

43
Cleanliness is an issue in the UK. I stayed in hospital for 5 days with my daughter in a children's ward and observed and learnt.

1. Doctors are highly qualified but only treat patients as cases. Some don't even refer to you by name. They are only responsible for curing the illness.

2. Nurses are equally well qualified but are only responsible for monitoring the patient's health and administering drugs. They do not clean floors, feed patients or even take patients to the toilet.

3. Cleaners do not seem to be trained in any health care at all. They sweep dust from an infectious ward straight into the corridor or even into non-infectious wards. They are not employed by the NHS and so do not report to a chief nurse/doctor. They are paid extremely low wages by companies who can only make a profit by paying low wages and spending as little time on a contract as possible.

This is why hospitals are filthy - no one is responsible for cleanliness. Most mums stay in hospital for as short a time as possible to avoid infections.

Saying that Stevenage Lister Hospital is a good hospital to be near - it has a plastic surgeon in residence - good thing to know if you do have children who squash their fingers in doors, fall against tables and split their mouths .....

44
Lots of generalisations here, saying that "hospitals are filthy" is not true, though there are of course individual bad examples. The NHS has provided excellent care to many of my friends and family in both pregnancy/birth and critical illnesses. As has been alluded to here already though, having limited resources and being free at the point of use the NHS must focus it's efforts on the most important cases. Hence if you have a normal, no complication pregnancy you will be largely left to your own devices (you're not ill), but if there is high risk (premature, twins, etc) the degree of monitoring and care ramps up significantly.

I had a baby 2 weeks ago in Switzerland having had parallel prenatal care in both London and Zurich while I was still working and splitting my time between the 2 cities. The standard level of care, i.e. regular appointments and two scans for the key 12 and 20 week checks, are the same in both countries. If you get more than this in Switzerland you are either paying for more cover, got lucky, or had some medical reason why you needed more (and you would have got it in UK too). THe 10 days of midwife care in Switzerland is great but my midwife told me there are plans to scale that back due to increasing costs.

IMO you need to take responsibility for your own wellbeing and that means researching your options, asking questions, visiting hospitals, changing doctors or midwives if you're not happy, background reading, asking for help if you need it with breastfeeding etc, not just sitting back and expecting someone else to offer it.

I opted to have my baby at a midwife led centre in Switzerland, not a hospital, so i had all my check-ups with the midwives not with a doctor. With only basic insurance my accommodation afterwards was not paid for (it would have been in a public hospital) so we stayed only one night and then came home as we were happy to do so. In the UK I was given a choice of local hospitals or a home birth.

Also don't forget that good news is no news so whether you are reading the newspaper or surfing baby forums you will always be swamped with all the negative stories and hear very few positive experiences.

Btw you can fly much later in pregnancy than an earlier post suggested, depends on the airline, e.g. IIRC BA want a letter from doctor after 6 months and doesn't allow it after 36 weeks; Swiss only want a letter from doc after 36 weeks. Don't get them mixed up as I did once to my cost!

45
Jerry I agree. First child was born in the UK, second in CH. Both were home water births but it was harder trying to arrange a home birth here in CH than in the UK! Luckily I chanced upon a wonderful birthhouse in Pratteln and immediately things became much more straightforward but I did keep on being sent (for safety) to an obstetrician, who despite being recommended by the midwife as being most in keeping with their ideologies, kept trying to give me scans at every visit, vitamins, etc etc. It was easier in the UK in that once I said how I wanted things to go (for as long as everything was going fine, midwife led care and minimum scans/testing unless otherwise indicated), it was respected. Here I kept on having to gently question why I needed another scan only 3 or 4 weeks after the last . (Most of the time the reply was, well don't you want to see the baby again?!!!) RachelW .. my experience was that there is far more "routine" pre-natal testing, scanning and obstetrician visiting than I experienced in the UK where everything was either at the surgery or home, led by midwives and apart from 2 scans, very low tech. I don't think our health insurance here is super expensive, just regular.

Of course I have no experience of hospitals in the UK, having only gone twice for the 12 week and 20 week scan so will have to defer to the posters who delivered in hospital.

46
An excellent post - I agree totally with you, that unless there are good indications, less is much more in pregnancy. All the tests and scans done her in CH are not necessarily so for safety or necessity (but sadly, often to pay the loans back on the expensive machines - for instance many many more x-rays are taken in CH, which is not always the safest option).

47
I didn't have additional insurance or pay extra and I had in total about 9 or 10 scans and not because there were complications. I am not the only person I know in CH who has had the same amount of scans. I did visit my Gyne in his practice and I have friends who have gone to the unispital instead of a private practice gyne who didn't get a scan at every appointment but they definitely got more than 2 scans (again normal non complicated pregnancies)

48
It would be really interesting to get the opinion from a qualified person. One scan a month, unless there are very specific problems/concerns- just is not required, and there is much research out there (Sweden and South Africa in particular) which indicates it might actually carry risks. It is not necessarily a good idea to equate more medicalisation, tests, scans with better medicine, in most circumstances. Independent research on the Internet/Google, from reputable sources, gives interesting results. Again, a professional opinion would be useful here.

49
To make her feel more at ease, take her for a tour to St Mary's new Birthing Centre. I am not sure how far north you live in London, but you are entitled to give birth in a hospital of your choice rather than be tied to a hospital where you live. My friend lived in Watford and gave birth in St Mary's. You have to just insist whe you are visiting your GP.

I have 1 child and gave birth in the UK. I found the system relaxing where you don't have to go to the doctors all the time and have blood tests and scans. I actually enjoyed it. There are bad cops and good cops everywhere.

50
Hi,

I gave birth to one child in Switzerland, and two in England on the NHS.

In Switzerland, the birth was totally medicalized: THEY were in charge. It was awful.

In England, everyone who entered the room read my birth plan. The births were calm, gentle, respectful, and professional. The respect and warmth that people on the ward showed me was absolutely wonderful.

England was a WAY better place for me to give birth. Plus, all the prenatal and postnatal care was excellent and free.

Childbirth is treated more like a natural process than a 'medical condition'.

Good luck deciding what's best for your family.

Elar