Having a baby! Which passport?

So my Swiss wife and I (born and raised American) are just a few short weeks away from having our first child. And through my excitement with setting up the nursery, shopping for things we really don't need etc, etc I have forgotten about the legal responsibilities This is where it gets interesting. What are the requirements for obtaining U.S citizenship? Do I have to enroll him as soon as he is born or can I wait until he is say 18? The reason I ask is because I would rather not burden him with paying taxes all of his adult life to a country that he may never decide to live in. Me and my wife plan on living here in CH and only traveling back to the U.S which she does not need a green card nor a visa. Can this work the same for my child? And then apply for citizenship at a later date if he decides to go to a U.S university or wants to live and work there? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I think you should really research all that. I could be wrong but I know Americans born outside the States to American dads who didn't have automatic rights to a passport, even after growing up in the states. Or at least, had certain rules and restrictions attached...

It would be a shame to lose a chance to have it just by not getting your info right in advance.

Good luck!

unless you are planning on traveling outside switzerland in the immediate future, don't rush this decision.

with a US passport comes taxes. with a Swiss passport comes military service (if you have a boy).

I have done this (same situation, except I'm the American wife and he's the Swiss husband), so here goes:

Your child has the right to American citizenship, regardless of which parent (mother or father) is American. Even if the parents aren't married, as long as the father claims paternity, the child can claim citizenship.

Also, you should know that US citizens are required to travel to the US on their US passport, even if they have dual citizenship, so it makes sense to get the US passport if you plan on visiting the grandparents...though I'm not sure how they'd figure it out.

You need:

1. The child's Swiss birth certificate

2. Both Parent's' passports

3. Your marriage certificate

4. Evidence of termination of previous marriage(s), if applicable

5. Proof of the American parent's physical presence in the US. At least 5 years of physical presence are required, and two of these must be after the age of 14. Common types of proof are high school or college transcripts, and most colleges will send transcripts anywhere in the world for a fee (you can even order them online from the registrar's office of your college).

6. Passport photos of the baby. These are really cute, by the way-I kept the extras.

Once the child is born and you have these documents, send an email to the US Consular Agency in Zürich: [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])

(if you live in or near Zürich, otherwise you can contact the US embassy in Bern or the consulate in Geneva). Include your situation (American married to a Swiss), and the following information about your child:

Name of Child

Date of Birth

Address

phone number

email address (seems redundant, but hey)

when to call

They will send you an email with the official forms to fill out, and you will send photocopies of everything to their office.

Once they've looked at it, they'll call you, set up an appointment and you come by with cash (the amounts are in the info they send, in 2008 it was 195 CHF), the original paperwork, both parents and the baby (if one parent can't make it, then you need to have a notarized letter of consent, which is as painful to get as going to the office anyway).

You'll then get a social security card, consular report of birth abroad (equivalent US birth certificate, aka CRBA) and a passport. They'll be sent to you in the mail. The whole process takes about a month after you get the Swiss birth certificate (which can take a while-our first daughter got hers in about 6 weeks, our second daughter got hers after 10 weeks), so plan your travel accordingly!

Hope this helps!

Not really true, as when the child turns 18, he or she is supposed to either choose exclusive American citizenship or Swiss citizenship, according to the USA. The Swiss don't care about dual citizenship, and they already will know about the birth, so you can't avoid military service (except by moving abroad). The Americans allow you to give up citizenship in this particular situation, so your child can still decide when he or she is of age if y'all are really really wealthy.

Besides, the US allows about 85,000 USD of foreign income without proof of taxation, and in countries with tax treaties you're protected from double taxation, so unless your child is really making bank and doing so in a country without a tax treaty, it ain't nothin'.

Are you sure that you can just give it up or pay a severance fee? I have no idea what the political future holds but as of now Obama will hit you up with a $50,000 fine just for making a mistake on your tax forms, regardless of income level. Look it up, its scary. Thats why I am reluctant to give my child U.S citizenship and would prefer to leave the choice to him. As far as traveling I have had no problems getting my wife into the U.S and it should (SHOULD) be the same with my child, as long as we bring the marriage and birth certificates. So I guess what I am really asking is can we put it off now and apply later? Or is it a now or never situation?

To answer your other questions:

You can apply for a report of birth abroad until the child is 18 years old as long as you haven't moved back to the US. If you move back or if your child is 18, it's a different form called a Certificate of Citizenship. This should be granted automatically as long as you fulfill all the requirements (see previous post).

Most US universities for which citizenship is a huge plus are run by the states, and many of these also require residency in the state, for lower tuition (in-state tuition) and/or for admission. So, citizenship isn't enough-you also need to live there. However, in order to apply to these universities, you'd also have to take the exams (generally the SAT as well as AP tests, sometimes the ACT) and apply to the school well in advance, so you'd probably have time to get the citizenship paperwork done and move to the state of your choice (residency is generally 1 year prior to the start of the school year) if that's what you really wanted.

Yes, you can never apply for US citizenship for your child, and he can travel on a Swiss passport just fine.

And you won't be burdening him with taxes for the rest of his life, at most he'll probably just have to report his worldwide income for the rest of his life, just like you do, so you'll give him a slight panic attack every year when he realizes it is April 15th and he hasn't finished his form 1040 yet.

Is this another change? The US goes back and forth on dual; both myself and my daughter have two (FR/US) and I've many Swiss/American friends (men) that do too.

Where did you hear that? Do you have a citation? What I have read on US govt. websites is that it is relatively easy to give up your US citizenship. There are some exit tax type policies, but if you are 18 or so and don't yet have large amounts of money in your name, it isn't a big deal. Edited to add: Answered my own question, found a well done history of the situation at: http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html

Obviously this is only a serious option if you have a second citizenship to fall back on. I think that I would almost certainly arrange for my kids to officially have US citizenship from the start, as well as any other nationality available to them. Make it that much easier for them to visit family and get to know the US, and then let them choose what to keep.

It was about 95k in 2009 and will probably/hopefully continue to rise with inflation. But in Switzerland it is relatively common to make more than this. Also, the exemption only applies to foreign earned income. It does not apply to foreign dividends, capital gains, etc. In fact, the paperwork and reporting look potentially nasty if you own shares in, say, a non-US mutual fund.

Perhaps more annoyingly, I don't think that Swiss IRA and retirement funds get any special US tax treatment. (I would love to find out that I am wrong on this point.) So putting money in a Swiss IRA reduces your Swiss taxes, but then you are liable for more US taxes.

Thanks for all your info

Just doing my American duty to make sure we pay as little tax as possible.

You can just give it up, I'm sure. It requires a trip to the consulate and $450. Or, you can keep both citizenships. This is technically not allowed, but they do not ask and you can't give up your Swiss citizenship as easily, and I know a few US-Swiss dual citizens.

As for the $50,000 fee, that smells like bullsh*t. I tried to look it up, and found nothing. There's certainly no automatic fine for making a mistake on your tax forms. Simple math errors are corrected automatically by the IRS. Form 1040-x is the form for reporting a more major mistake. And, the current commisioner of the IRS is Douglas H. Shulman, not Obama. So, it's Shulman that would be "hitting you" with fees.

Off topic, but it sounds like you and my beloved father would have a great time Obama-bashing.

What isn't?

Where did you hear that? Do you have a citation? What I have read on US govt. websites is that it is relatively easy to give up your US citizenship. There are some exit tax type policies, but if you are 18 or so and don't yet have large amounts of money in your name, it isn't a big deal.[/QUOTE]

Dual citizenship is apparently "not encouraged," whatever that means.

http://www.consular.canada.usembassy...itizenship.asp

Yes, you're right about the numbers-I was guessing as I don't have my forms in front of me Also, yes, the paperwork gets really awful with investments (which I don't have..uh...yet) and I do know that US tax lawyers have good business abroad. I also don't know about IRAs and such, for the same reasons, though I would imagine that this type of thing would be covered by the tax treaties between Switzerland and the US.

Anyone a tax expert out there?

Yeah, the taxes used to irritate me until I realized that I didn't have to pay anything. Which I guess means that I'm poor by Swiss standards!

If this is technically not allowed at this point in time, I would love to know the regulation.

Regarding my exit tax comment, I found the details of what I was thinking of at http://www.irs.gov/publications/p519...link1000222390 Essentially though, they don't want to lose the money on your unrealized capital gains. Well, not if the unrealized capital gains are significant. In addition, it looks like it is waived if the dual national had another citizenship at birth and gives up the US citizenship before turning 18 1/2.

If nothing else I think that having US citizenship abroad is likely to cost you accountant/tax expert fees.

Well with memory the story gets more extreme as time passes. Its actually a $10,000 fine for failing to file FBAR on time. A law created by Obama and his team. Here is the link http://www.ssd.com/fbar_compliance_update/ And here is the E.F expert anaylisis of the situation For US citizens: new FBAR requirements 2009/2010 Yes me and your father would have a great time, and I even voted for the guy. But since his election he has gone against all of his promises for all that hopey changey stuff. Like the announcement last week from Eric Holder that the U.S WILL waste even more billions of dollars enforcing federal marijuana laws even if California votes to legalize it. (enforcing laws that are proven to not work, feeds the cartels and their violence and goes against the will of the people)

Swiss citizenship it is.

Well, you two certainly would disagree on the value of spending money on drug enforcement. Also, looks like I need to find myself a tax lawyer! Anyone out there?

This is no value in enforcing drug laws since prohibition has never worked, ever. (except for the prison unions and the drug cartels) Just tax it, regulate it, and watch the cartels die. This war is more deadly than Iraq and Afganistan combined, yet they still want to maintain the status qou. Anyways get you a lawyer to figure out this F.U.B.A.R err, I mean FBAR. And in the end, I think I will give my child U.S citizenship as it may be easier to renounce it than to apply for it and you never know, maybe one day it will be benificial to be an American again.......one day.

(I.E instead of serving in the Swiss military he can go to a U.S university instead) Interesting points of view from both sides of this discussion.

Of course your child can go to university in Switzerland for a lot less than in the US, and there are decent schools here as well. University education in the US might be useful, or might not.

If your kid turns out to be either an academic or sports genius, probably they'll figure out a way to pay for your child if they want him or her badly enough in the US. It is true that certain scholarships, etc are available for US citizens only though.

Reduced tuition in a state school is complicated. Your child has to establish residency in the state usually a year ahead of time.... it may not be worth the effort.

My husband is a dual Dutch-US citizen, and I'm a US citizen. It turns out that it was easier for him to become a citizen (we did this before we left the US) than give up the green card since he travels back to the US for conferences and to work with colleagues. I wish there had been an easy way to just give up the green card, but there isn't. We did this on the recommendation of an immigration attorney. And we we didn't feel like lying about our intent to stay in Europe. My husband is perfectly happy with his US citizenship...I'm the complainer.

TO be honest, if it were me, I might not get my kid US citizenship until I had a clearer idea of what his/her interests might be and whether or not it's likely the kid would ever want to live in the US. I think it's harder to give up than to get (although it seems to be different for a child).

I agree about the marijuana, too - such crap. Decriminalize it, tax it and earn money off it.

The FBAR isn't too bad. Just find all your accounts, find the max, convert to USD and slap it on the page. It feels like a major invasion of privacy, but I just suck it up and send it.

Your child will have automatic US citizenship.