I am having a panic moment, and need a little reassurance...
Our daughter is in her third year of schooling in a bilingual Montessori school. She has had a minimum 50% immersion in German and Swiss-German over the past 2 years, and has been tested at least up to grade 3 level in German with good results.
Now I am starting to panic...how do I even work out what her schooling options are ? Will she cope with being a 'Non-native German speaker' in the local school - we are kind of keen to send her to the local Sekundarschule because we are a bit apprehensive about her being pushed too hard academically (and made to feel stupid) and would like her to make social networks int he local community...
If you have kids who have gone into local secondary school with not the greatest German, and have survived, or suggestions on where I can get the right information about how the local school system operates, I'd be very interested...
And the age ? Our daughter turns 11 this month, she would turn 12 at the beginning of her first year of secondary school - will she be too young ? My parents kept me for an additional year of Primary school so I turned 13 by then...I think our daughter might be too young!
Frankly, there is not way to know with certainty wheather your child will feel stupid in secondary or not... her real capacity will show when she is in the situation that challenges her to it. It's quite experimental in the scientifical sense of the word. It be you follow teacher's advices with or without extra evaluation from psychologist or some kind of spe. paed.
She won't be the first non-native German in a Swiss secondary school, and her faith is individual. No previous experience will foresee her future. But I know for a fact that it has worked before. It is not unseen.
From my experience in Gymnasium, the real shock it not (only) the language but the change Montessori=>state school. It's just different.
I can relate to the Montessori -> state system because I did it myself, so that doesn't really worry me so much...
And Zurich is full of foreigners so I guess she will be in good company...
Is it true that in swiss secondary schools the kids have only a couple of teachers who teach various subjects ? this sounds quite different to my experience in Australia where I had an enormous number subjects in year 7, and a different teacher for each of them:
yes it is , up to Sekundarstufe I , and this is why I can't get a job here..then from Sekundarstufe II , it is one teacher per subject.. I actually don't understand how someone can be trained to teach such various subjects as science, geography and music for example... I don't know how they can have a deep knowledge of each of the subject they teach..
So how many subjects do they do at the lower secondary level, and does it vary from school to school ? Or is it mostly a 'standard' curriculum for the canton for lower secondary ?
I can only tell you of our experience with the local state schools with our 2 girls who were aged 5 and 9 when we came here. Neither could speak a word of german and yes, it was a little difficult especially for the older one who went into year 3 of primary school. But it didn't take long for them to learn the language, both Swiss German and high German, and now the older one has an apprenticeship with ZKB in Zürich and the younger one is in sec A in high school. I have never regretted our decision to send them to the local Swiss school, I feel it immersed them completely into the local community enabled them to learn the language quicker and helped them make friends with the local children.
This is coming from a slightly different perspective but hopefully may help you put some fears to rest.
My son is 11 and is in the immigration integration class at the local school. He is loving it, having arrived speaking no German at all, I am amazed at how much he already knows.
But the point I am making is really that I think if there are any problems at all the school would speak with you and work out a solution. Their idea is that the child should be able to 'survive' in classes where no English is spoken and they keep a very close eye on how this is going. The very first time we met my sons teacher she recognised a slight speech impediment and suggested the speech therapist gets involved. They have a very high focus on pupil welfare, or so I have been lucky enough to find. We are kept well informed of how things are going and he himself is enjoying going to school........now that was not the case in the UK at all. He also already knows lots of children in the main stream school as apprently his goal keeping skills are good
Of course it's only natural for you to be concerned, as a good mother. But if you are unsure, speak to the school. I found them to be most welcoming and helpful.
Thanks everyone, that is very reassuring. I am delighted by the idea that she won't have a multitude of teachers like I did at that age (I have to say though, I did make quite an impression on all my multitude of teachers ).
I do think it will be better for her to immerse fully in German and she absolutely loves French - I guess because it's the one subject where she is at no disadvantage as they separate out the native French speakers first .
She also loves maths, and has been schooled for it in both languages, so she should be able to grow that skill and layer on the terminology.
I travelled an hour each way to school because I went to something similar to 'Gymnasium'...and the local high school was very rough. I just don't see that roughness here in downtown Zurich...and I'd rather she could walk just a few minutes to/from school and enjoy having local friends...and paying 37,000chf a year for the 'international' school is not an option
I agree with ClareJane, the teachers do have the childs best interest at heart. Our oldest daughter was recognised as having a form of dyslexia but with numbers and not words and was immediately given one to one tuition with a specialist. In England the teachers just thought that she was not very bright and put her in the lowest Maths class
Asking questions here is good, but you really ought to visit the local school to get the information directly. Take your daughter's test results with you and I think she should go with you as well.
The school system in Zürich is tough even for native German speakers but just keep in mind that even if your daughter does not make it to the Gymnasium, the Sek still leaves her with plenty of options. It is not a dead end.
Hope you find a good solution. I am confident that you will.
This varies by canton, perhaps - my son's 10 and has just started secondary here in Vaud (transition cycle) and has teachers as follows: one for Maths and Science (his form teacher); one for French and History; one for Geography and Gym; one for German; one for Woodwork; one for Music; one for Art.. I think that's all...
He really likes changing teachers and classes all day - he thinks those 5 mins are extra playtime - and he's quite starstruck over have MALE teachers for the first time ever!
But it's a lot to take in if you're new, with a lack of language - our school almost always puts new 5th graders into redoubling 4th grade, to allow time for the French to 'catch'.
I like your point about not too much academic pressure too, Swisspea. My son's only had a few marks so far, around the 5 level. If he turns out to be a borderline call between the top or the middle stream, there's a lot to be said for doing well and being successful in the middle stream than being the bottom of the class in the top stream. He can do a year later along the line when his French is near native, and upgrade streams to get to a Matura, but it would be very difficult to repair potentially damaged self-esteem and a wholesale 'switch off' from education by his mid-teens. We shall see in 18 months...
I'm reviving this thread today - since posting I found out that our daughter is just outside the cut-off for year 6, so she will do another year (2011-12) in the Montessori school, which we are very happy about...
We are thinking the 'soft' option will be to send her to Sek-A at the local high school which is literally 3 minutes walk from our home....I see the local kids hanging around and they seem pretty nice and kind of normal, and in our area (Adliswil) there is a good cultural diversity, which for us is important (although our kids are very anglo, we come from a culturally diverse society and we value that)...
So, if anyone has any experiences with Sek-A or Sek-B and the 7-9 programme in Zurich, I'd be very interested. We are not the sort of parents who think 'Gymnasium' is the goal - my husband and I were both streamed in Australia into top 5% schools, and we know how intense and unrealistic the pressure can be, and we are happy for our daughter to travel her own pathway as we have no doubt that she can pursue her dreams (my sister has dyslexia and is just about to do begin her PhD in Psychology)...
As long as the school system keeps her busy, occupied with useful things to learn, and socially active, we will be happy....
The other option we might consider is the Rudolph Steiner Schule, but we have friends/colleagues whose studied there, and they have had trouble transferring back to the main stream...
Any other tips for building social confidence in the local language/s. I'm afraid I am a poor example because I get easily embarrassed when trying to handle communication in German ? So she understands it all, but speaks little, just like her mum!
Thanks for any reassurances or suggestions - the school have said it could be possible academically for her to aim for gymnasium but she responds really poorly under pressure, and the travelling would be further each day...and as I said, we are not so convinced that it's the best option (I know what it's like to be a 90% student and feel like a failure because everyone else manages to get 95%)...
As mentioned in goodasgolds' thread, a lot of information regarding the various private schools in and around Zurich (should you select that option) may be found here:
I really like your approach and I believe you're right in regards to too much pressure. Certainly your girl will build confidence regardless of the decision made (public or private) because of your approach.
I also find that repeating a year, if necessary, can be really helpful.
I have a daughter and a son who have just started at Gymi in September. My daughter was at the Sekundarschule and my son at the Primarschule.
I can safely say that I would have preferred my son to have gone to the Sekundarschule rather than direct to the Gymi.
My daughter had a fantastic time at the Sekundarschule being able to maintain what I would call a normal life. She had homework and tests but it did not take up all of her life as it does now.
She was still able to enjoy her afternoons off and play with her friends and importantly enjoy her childhood.
She has had 5 years of German and the time at the Sekundarschule has allowed her to mature and acquire a good range of study skills.
She was 11 when she started at the Sekundarschule and even though she is the youngest in her Gymi class she is coping really well.
I would suggest the Sekundarschule as this is the more relaxed way ( less stress too).
I feel that there is a massive jump in going to the Gymi from the Primarschule obviously dependent on the individual child.
That's ok. She's I'm the second sek year and doing great. We have nothing but positive praise for the school in Adliswil. We ended up getting a referral to the school psychologist as there were good reasons for the panic. That was fine whe she was finishing grade 5. She experienced some bullying from one particular child, but the child was moved out of her class and relocated because he was also academically not coping and he needed a fresh start.
We have an information seminar tonight about career paths, and the school invited us to both a German and an English version...they are very pro-active. Misdemeanors like mobile phones in school, forgetting homework or missing work are reported back, and we are expected to sign off on every test and report, so we get a lot of feedback. Her teacher has really taken her on despite her differences (she was assessed by the school psych and is considered gifted, particularly in languages, but spends most of her school days refusing to speak!)... You will see that I recently posted a question about 10th year options for kids who don't do gymnasium. She has a problem performing in time-limited exam situations, so she either had to learn to perform, or do a much more project based study mode.