How much you really need to live in Switzerland?

Just to chime in, since financial figures you often presented with here on English Forum comes from expat's in an upper-middle class or lower upper-class.

For you as a couple with the type of life-style you describe and looking at the average Swiss from the working class, it is more than possible to get around with between 80-90K per year. Okay, you are not going to have it easy and the best insurance or the best car. If you want a better type of living and willing to shop around for a cheap apartment, instead of just taking the first and best (most likely also most expensive), you can easily get by on 120K per year.

I am that example of that, I am still early in my working career, therefore low on the pay scale, I live with my fiance (who works 70% only) in a nice middle-class area of Lausanne (a city where you pay a lot of tax also), where we found a really nice apartment for around 1300-1500 that would in most other areas have cost around 2500-2700, mainly due to older style bathroom and kitchen, but nothing to scream 2nd or 3rd world about, but it could use a renovation in maybe 3-4 years. We have a nice brand new car, health insurance with not the cheapest health insura (but a good one) with the lowest deductible also. We both have mobiles, the fastest internet connection and nice TV subscription. Plus the usual monthly installments on credet. I pay all the bills (including now my almost regular speeding tickets), my fiance virtually only pays for grocery shopping, I pay everything else related to our living here... yet, at the end of the month, we still both have more than enough left over to go frequently traveling, shopping trips, buying stuff online, decorating the house, in general have a nice living without worrying to much about money....

10 Sfr. per 100g is not realistic, even for beef.

This might be of interest:

http://www.swissemigration.ch/themen...x.html?lang=en

The German, French and Italian versions of the website contain much more detail.

All depends on what you mean by "live well". I think most people have different standards.

I am single and rarely spend more than 2000.- CHF a month:

~1000 CHF for rent

~300 CHF for health insurance

~300 CHF for food

Then there is still 400 CHF left for other expenses

...

I usually buy most of my food at Aldi and my clothes at H&M so not the most expensive shops but I still feel I "live well".

It also depends on if you feel the need to buy expensive things to feel happy. I feel I have got past that stage in my life.

"It's no use trying to hide the fact: Switzerland is one of the most expensive countries in the world."

Brutal honesty — straight from the (government) horse's mouth. I love it.

which is a real bargain compared to what you would pay in Texas to get a place with a view of the Alps.

sorry, couldn't resist...

I don't know where you guys are coming from and what you call decent, but I beleive you can have a decent lifestyle for a *lot* less than that.

When I had my first job I was earning 5200. I was living slap bang right in the middle of Niederdorf. I was out almost every night, and not just in the cheap places, and off to the mountains or some other place one to two times a month and still saving money.

And no, I didn't ever go to Aldi or Lidl etc. I didn't even go to Denner.

If I'd have lived a bit more carefully I could have saved up a lot more than I did.

depending on where you live of course, and what your expectation are, I would beg to disagree. Of course there are private school in the 20k range but there are private schools that are way cheaper than that. Range of 5K maybe. Plus the quality of state schools is pretty good, possibly better than some private schools as in contrast to the Uk, where parents send their kids to private school because they want them to get the best possible education, the Swiss often send their kids to private schools when they have the impression that the state school system is failing on them. So private schools often tend to collect the problem cases whose parents think can somehow be cured if enough money is flung in their general direction. For some it may work, for others it doesn't. Private schools also tend to attract the teachers who can't get jobs in state schools (at least in my duirect experience), so again, not exactly a selling point in their favour.

Electricity is dirt cheap. I pay something like 8 franks a month. Not worth mentioning really.

either you'r lucky or you've got a cheap haircutter or your expectations are low. I pay more in the range of 60 to 80 Franks (I'm a man). I've been to cheaper ones but I was never really satisfied. I often go to Geramny do have my hair done though, where it is cheaper by about half.

Sorry, but I consider a decent steak to be common meat. I typically pay 20-25 CHF for a 200 g steak at either my local Metzgerei or COOP.

with the Geman discounters coming in, and big French supermarkets with great prices & articles surrounding the French part of the greater Geneva, Nyon and other places, quality food and non - food items at quality prices can be obtained. Of course you need your own car or motorbike.

I'd suggest you anyway acquire some on-site exposure and consider cruising a few parts of France that anybody should consider before Swiss - settling : Normandy, Picardie and Nord - Pas - de - Calais in particular.

Regarding Switzerland, aside from the deep countryside, there remains a few city centers where real estate can be acquired - perhaps dangerous idea now - or rented at affordable price : Fribourg, Neuchâtel, or anywhere in Jura. It's not the landscape that makes the price. But the proximity of hot Int'l companies or organizations

have fun cruising the maps

For a good cut of beef it is very realistic. For the local stuff, that is expensive. I'll leave it to the other thread as to what you consider to be the better tasting option.

Very Swiss indeed! I think it is a way manage expectations from the start and also to discurage people to come that later would end up on Swiss well-fare I suspect.

I live in Lausanne and have always wondered, if it was worth going to France, seems like it is... Do you have any recommendations for places to go to?

Are we missing out on Health insurance?

It is a significant part of our expenses, considering it cost more than GA traincard, regional trampass, 3x visits to a midrange restaurant, per month. worst still, it seems like there is no means of saving any cent on it.

(if someone has already figured that out, let us know...)

I think each of us have received a letter from our respective insurance company that we have to pay 20-30% more for the next year.

you can save a lot on health insurance if you shop around and reduce it to the stuff you really need. Go on to Comparis.ch for example, and calculate some different variants. You'd be surprised how much you can save without actually missing out on anything that really matters.

I can recommend assura for example. A good decent health insurance with a very low cost approach yet always good at paying up when you need tham.

I have to come back to France regularily, and I've gotta tell you it isn't all that much cheaper to live here anymore, if your buying like for like and looking for the same quality. Taxes are much higher, social charges are much higher, fuel is more expensive, clothing is more expensive, medicare is more expensive, and insurances are broadly similar. Accomodation is cheaper and largely so is food, but the rapidly dwindling cost differential can no way offset the fact that you'll have to live with the French and there appauling and belligerant attutiude, rapidly rising crime rates, shoddy work and quality, and mind numbing fascination with forms.

I guess the perfect option is to work in Switzerland but reside in a cheaper country, but in my opinion, Swiss quality of life is generally much higher in almost every regard, but that comes at a cost, which I'm more than happy to pay....anyone wanna buy 3 house in Cognac

Errm... nope. I got my renewal notices this week, and the policies for me, my husband and my two kids have all gone DOWN by a couple of francs a month.

The adults policies are with Vivacare, and the kids are with Visana. So far, I've claimed once on Visana for a doctor's visit when my son had chicken pox, and it was no trouble - the doctor billed the insurance direct and I just got a tiny facture for 10%, about 5 CHFs.

Have a word with Jenny on this forum, she arranged my policies and is fab!

kodokan

University is almost free too. That's a big difference to the US I would say. Here we can go to some of the best universities in the world for 600$/semester!

I don't mean to break it to you but things in Switzerland are at least twice as expencive than in the US, good luck on your search!

Hi

Of course it is highly dependent on life style (and location, ...)

But, you could budget for a "OK" life style on CHF 100,000 pa salary.

A middle management type role (depending on industry) might be around 140,000

There are big tax differences in different locations - see here for details of the tax calculator:

http://www.estv.admin.ch/d/dienstlei...uerrechner.htm

If you use the base of 100,000 you will see about 14,000 Tax for Bern and a little over 10,000 for ZH.

Good luck, David