How much you really need to live in Switzerland?

I really wonder how the rest of us survive with less that 100'000 pa! I feel extremely poor when I see amounts like that and until now I thought I lived well. I don't mean this as a criticism, but the average Swiss does not earn 100'000 year and it still possible to eat out, go to the movies, pay the bills, get clothes and have a nice flat. It just really depends on what your expectations are and what qualifies as a good life.

I have the same impression. It makes me wonder in what sort of an ivory tower some people on this forum are living. The average salary in Switzerland is a less than 6K per month. Yet I think most people in Switzerland do live a relatively comfortable life with various reasonable luxuries, and do manage to get out and about at least as much if not more than people in other developed contries do.

Hi, sorry folks if from my tower I got lost with my head in the clouds.

I was trying to answer the original forum question and not guess the average salary. But, I think the current average is around 6,500 per month.

I guess it boils down to what the original questioner means by "nice". Depending on location a "nice" apartment could be a really big chunk of that 6K a month.

This is why it is such a hard (and often pointless) question to answer.

One man's meat is another man's bread.

Some people want a Porsche and Champagne, some only want a bratwurst and a decent beer.

The cost of their lifestyles and what is required is obviously massively different...thus 100k for some is a ridiculously low or high salary to live on.

Meat is expensive as is food.

Transport is cheap if you use the special offers and travel cards in Switzerland..therefore if you are a vegetarian train spotter you will be very well off....if on the other hand you are a fat slacker who hates leaving the house and only eats beef then you will find Switzerland an expensive nightmare.

As a rule:

Food is expensive, eating out in restaurants is expensive, meat is expensive.

Public transport is expensive if you don't use the correct tickets/ discounts

Owning a car is expensive

Clothes are expensive

Skiing is expensive

Renting a house/ flat in Zurich or Geneva (or similar) is expensive

Buying a house is expensive in the same cities

If you want to do all of the above often and regularly then 100k is a good salary.

The reason the lifestyle in Switzerland is so good and the reason people like it is because, despite the cost of what a lot of people consider to be "basics", the standard of living is actually very high.

Why,

Taxes are low, and salaries are higher than on average across almost all western countries. This means you have more to spend on more expensive things.

e.g. Flats are expensive, but usually of a very high standard. You will pay the same money for a place in London as in Zurich, but the place in Zurich will be bigger, better maintained and built, 30mins from the mountains, 10mins from the lake, 2 hours away from France, Italy, Germany, Austria, Czech, UK, Greece (etc.) and serviced by a reliable public transport system that can take you all those places.

Yes the flat is expensive but you get a lot for your money.

My answer to the original question is 10k as a couple would be ample.

6k would mean no holidays.

Anything above 10k as a couple and you can look for a place on the lake and think about a nice car or lots of foreign holidays.

I agree entirely with Planthead. Having explored this question of salaries in the Government Statistics department ( http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/de/index.html ) I found the details for several Kantons. An example was for ZH for University level qualified people the average was 9.8K per month.

10K is certainly good for "nice" and 6K is probably OK but not ideal for the nice car and nice house originally requested. For example a mid-range reasonably new BMW probably is going to work out around 1K per month fully costed (insurance etc). So that's a big chunk of cash. But, in many locations the public transport is fantastic - so in most big towns you can live happily with no car.

Apartment costs in ZH, GE and Basel can get seriously expensive and buying is big money.

As Planthead says, a big plus in Switzerland is that the taxes are generally low and the salaries generally high. This helps with the high living costs (e.g., compulsory health care) and makes comparisons across Europe very interesting.

The original questioner wanted a nice car AND money for holiday. So maybe we need to stick our heads further into the stratosphere and suggest an answer of 12K !!!

Ciao, David

But hey, sorry to be pedantic, but isn't this bringing your own expectations with you rather than seeing what is necessary and relevant. Suppose a Swiss person moved to Austin TX but still decided that a decent liefstyle invloved going skiing every weekend and generally otherwise living a Swiss liefstyle in terms of Swiss food, Swiss wine etc. How would that person find living in Austin was? Very expensive I guess. But would it be fair to extrapolate from that observation that life in Texas is expensive? No it wouldn't. So if you want to take your liefstyle with you, you pay the price. If you want to look, learn and adapt, you get a lot more for your money.

Well a mid range BMW is not an unreasonable option by swiss standards. I know it is easier to live car-free here but the vast majority of the Swiss own a car.

Less than 40'000 pa anyone?

I'm not sure car ownership is as high as you think, 50% - though I suppose if my husband I have one car between us you could define that as both 'owning' a car...

http://www.swissworld.org/en/economy...port/mobility/

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...rungsgrad.html

The second link claims that car ownership in the USA is around 800 per thousand people - much higher than Europe - although you could argue that there are a few people who own more than one car...

I take it you would like to know if it is worth going to France for shopping, not visiting. I would say definitely yes, but then we live in Geneva and France is closer to us than it is to you. With Euro weakening against the CHF, shopping there is now getting cheaper, but even when Euro was strong we would buy a lot of stuff there.

You can go to Divonne-les-Bains (exit Coppet, direction Geneva) to buy meat, there is a good butcher on the main shopping street. Casino, also in the centre, is a supermarket with a good selection of British food (if that is of interest). Also, Divonne food market is very good and convenient on Sundays. Saturday market is even better, but for that you have to go do Ferney-Voltaire. Satoriz (right in the centre of Ferney) has a good selection of organic food and Michelin http://www.fromages-michelin.com/ has an excellent selection of cheeses (mostly French but also foreign, including stilton).

In my view, the variety of food in France is generally much better than in Switzerland and many items are cheaper. Not everything though, so if you are looking to save some money you have to learn what not to buy there.

easy. Most students live on much less than that, and still manage to go on holidays and have a social life. When I was studying (though admittedly this is now 12 years back) my basic budget was 600 to 800 franks per month (for the rent, food, transport, books etc). At the time, the Fremdenpolizei were recommending a budget of 10K pa, so I was marginally below that.

At some point in your life, you want to have more than that though.

... and those cars are not evenly distributed. In the big cities such as Basel and Zurich you'll find the figure is lower.

Hi

This might help clarify expectations of salary:

http://www.lohnrechner.bfs.admin.ch/...d.aspx?lang=de

Of course, salaries vary by location, education, industry, etc etc etc.

Also, there are in some industries minimum salaries set either by law or by collective agreements. These agreements tend to be focussed more on education level than on location. More details (unfortunately using 2005 data) is here:

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/d...nk/key/05.html

Regards, D (fresh to the Forum and trying to help!)

I've just got back from France and I kept my till reciept from Auchan in Cognac, and compared it to the last reciept from the Co-op in Affoltern am Albis. I was surprised to find that the French prices weren't dramatically cheaper.....until I got to the meat . So glad I now have a freezer full of nice cheap duck and steak.

Hi,

I have read through countless of posts that mention the rental prices. Should I assume that these prices are for unfurnished apartments, and how possible is it to get a furnished apartment.

I am checking if I should get an unfurnished and do it up myself. What would be a typical costs when it comes to furnishing?

I have an inkling by going to Ikea.ch but it would be nice to hear what people have spent on furnishing.

I am looking for an apartment, size between 65 to 85m2. 2 - 3 rooms apartments. It will just be for me and my wife.

By the way, I am looking in Zürich.

Regards,

Adrian

I think it is fair to assume the prices people have been quoting are for unfurnished. You can get furnished apartments in the big cities and these are often intended for business people. Also, you can get furnished in the ski resorts and these are generally intended for long-term rents (like all winter).

Usually you will have no need to renovate the apartment as it should be offered to you in good order and freshly decorated. Of course, there are exceptions and price plays a big part.

In Zurich the prices are quite high as apartments are hard to find. But, like everywhere there are exceptions. Try exploring:

www.immoschweiz.ch

There are many other property sites but this one might give you some more details.

I was in Ikea recently to get some rugs but noticed they had full mock-up houses set up like "we live in 65m" with all the furniture - I did not see if there was a total cost.

Oooo cheap duck - hopefully it wasn't also produced in France (or Hungary!) Saw something on German TV last week (barbaric process and conditions to boot, put me off for life.) One of the reasons also why I wouldn't eat pate du foie gras....

Interesting you wrote this...I was telling a friend of mine that Switzerland is very good for children-(little ones) or if you are very old. If you want to establish your career, explore life in a positive non-suppressive manner than Switzerland is not the place. It is nice but there are other countries with electricity and running water! LOL

Yes but in Switzerland it is not so simple to get into a University. In USA "everyone" can have a chance to get into a university.

What is the difference between "...not so simple to get into... ." and "..."everyone" can have a chance... ."?