how to find a breed [of dog] that fits with your family?

So as a family (us and 3 children 10,9 &7) we have decided we would like a dog... its been a long decision because we actually decided to get a dog when we lived in Australia, but then we got the chance to move to CH and obviously put that on hold. We are now very settled here and have no plans to move and feel we are in the right moment to take care of a dog - I work from home and the kids are old enough to 'help' in the care of the new member.

But I have reached a bit of a stumbling block, in Australia we were 100% for a Golden Retriever - lovely family dog, great with kids and easily trainable and we had a massive garden. We still would like the same characteristics i.e family/child friendly and hopefully easily trainable,enjoys a walk (but not needing hours of exercise) except we dont have a massive garden so a Golden Retriever i suspect is out of the question, (we have a large flat with a balcony)....I grew up with rescue German Shepard's - which I love, but again they are big, and most of the friends I have with dogs are all quite large, so I am unfamiliar with many medium/smaller breeds.

So I am after any ideas or experience really, I have done a few 'whats the right bread for you' tests on line but they all come back with breeds I'm not sure about and always lots of Toy Breeds which I'm not overly keen on.

I thought about going to a Tierheim but would they be interested in me looking (but not necessarily adopting)? How else could I meet different breeds of dogs?

I really want to make sure I find the right dog for us, and not rush to get a dog just because we have made a decision to get one, as this is a big thing and I dont want to just pick a breed out of a hat....

Any advice welcome!

A labrador would get my vote every time: fantastic temperaments, great with kids. Ours does shed everywhere although we forgive her because she's gorgeous and also comedy gold! Not sure I'd want a lab in a flat though...

Are you thinking puppy or rescue? With kids I'd personally go with the the former, just because you know exactly what you're dealing with when you've raised the dog yourself. Opinions however will vary on this, no doubt.

Good luck choosing.

The children are old enough for a puppy, but do you realise that puppies are not dry at night until about 14 weeks old?

I would recommend a poodle or a mixed race with a poodle. They are intelligent, not too big for children, and don't shed hair. A female dog is easier to handle than a male.

Be careful where you buy a puppy! There are many puppies traded from dreadful breeding farms abroad. If the puppy is not with the mother walk away. I would visit the pups alone, and then bring the children afterwards. Then you won't be persuaded to buy that cute little runt of the litter.

A strange thing I find here is that breeders will sell you a puppy, with a contract. This usually has a clause that states that you are not allowed to sell the puppy to anyone, unless the breeder has had a first refusal. I suppose it is a good idea, in that if you don't get along with the puppy, the breeder will take it back.

There's quite a bundle of "rules and regs" as far as dog ownership goes - compulsory training and so on so it might be worth contacting meloncollie on here who is the absolute authority on all things canine in Switzerland.

One of my friends recommends this book, they ended up with a boxer and she's great

https://www.amazon.com/Right-Dog-You.../dp/067147247X

Beagles are a good compromise on size. Not all too big, not laughably small. They aren't exactly the smartest of dogs. Think of them as a fur covered tube in search of food. Never leave a bag of shopping within reach of a Beagle, most particularly not if there happens to be butter in the bag.

And, when you read "The Beagle is a hunting dog, it needs to be on a line." take this seriously, it is not a joke. If you see a Beagle without a leash, talk to him and distract him, it will only be a matter of time until you hear an owner shouting "Snoopy, Snoopy! Here Snoopy!". If the owner doesn't appear, Snoopy will probably go home with you quite happily.

If you do get a Beagle, have them chipped, and get a tag with your phone number on it for his/her collar. These are well worth the money.

There's nothing wrong with a lab in an apartment. We've got one on the 9th floor, since he was 8 weeks old. ;-)

Just be aware that the potty training does take a bit of extra effort!

And because everyone needs labrador pictures to start their day off right:

Raising a lab on hardwood floors in a high rise

Rusty at 9 months

Rusty update thread

And a new photo because I'm on holiday and have been looking for an excuse to post one:

There's no perfect answer. When my wife and I first got our dog, we wanted a sporting breed that could keep up with our adventures (we didn't have kids). We ended up with a great weimaraner, but now that we have 3 kids, it's a constant challenge to keep up with his exercise requirements. He's been fantastic with our young children, but gets mischievous without significant exercise.

So if across the family it would be a challenge to provide at least 1 hour / to exercise the dog, you may want to consider a smaller breed as some others as posted. Here are some reasons why, m

1) Easier to exercise. On beautiful, sunny weekend days, it doesn't seem like a chore. But when it's Tuesday, cold and raining out, you still need to do it. With a smaller breed, you can usually tire them out much easier / faster.

2) Less space needed in the house / garden. This is especially important if you continue to rent. It's much easier to find a place that will accept a smaller dog.

3) If you go on holiday, it will be easier to find someone (e.g., a friend) to care for the dog for the above reasons. If you want to take the dog with you, it will also be easier.

Good luck with your search!

The neighbours have three kids and bought a beagle.

Lovely dog, and as Jagwaugh says, can't be let off the lead.

Another fella has a 'hairy dachshund, again a great family dog but can't be set free in the woods.

I've got a spaniel, lovely dog, comes back, but very hairy.

Perhaps a Westie would suit? Great with kids and a bit of a charater as well.

While we are posting pictures of wet dogs....

Y’all know what my first suggestion is going to be...

Before you go any farther, you and the family should do the SKN Theory course. This is the first of the two mandatory courses, and must be done before you acquire a dog.* No reputable breeder or rescue will allow you to buy or adopt a dog without your SKN Theory certificate, or proof of exception.

Not only is this course a legal requirement, but it will also help you focus on what factors are important to you and your family as you consider what sort of dog will be a good fit for you. The whole point of the SKN Theory is to prepare you for dog ownership in Switzerland - and finding the right dog, one whose instinctive needs and character fits with what you can provide for him, is key to that preparation. Your SKN trainer can help you as you consider what breed is a good fit for your family.

So step 1 - Do the SKN Theory course!

Only the adult(s) in whose name the dog will be listed is required to do the course, but I would suggest doing it with the whole family. The children are old enough to be involved, and the course would benefit everyone. Not all trainers will do it with family members present, but many will.

Do you need suggestions for a trainer? Can you do it in Geman?

You can read more about the SKN courses here:

https://www.blv.admin.ch/blv/de/home...de-halten.html

And here is the database of certified SKN trainers:

http://blv.bytix.com/plus/trainer/

Please read through the whole of the BLV ‘Hunde richtig halten’ site, there is more information that can help you in making your decision.

Next thing I’d like you to read - The BLV has put together a site addressing concerns around purchasing a dog. There is a very dark side to the dog trade here. Switzerland is a target for scammers and puppy mills because here you have the perfect storm of many naive consumers with lots of money to spend. These despicable dog traders, Hundmafia, etc cause so much misery - do not help to line these folks' pockets. It is often not easy for the first time buyer to spot these scammers and Hundemafia, some are very sophisticated in their approach to buyers. And now we are even seeing the same scams and battery farmers pretending to be rescuers, again to open the wallets of naive good hearted people. So please read through the site for background on this awful trade.

The Hundekauf site also details many issues you need to think about in deciding to bring a dog into your life.

http://www.hundekauf.ch/index.html .

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So now that you have done the SKN Theory course, now that you are armed with info to help you avoid the bad actors... what sort of dog?

I am not going to suggest breeds, but rather ask you to focus on what you can give your dog, to help you decide on which dog will best fit in with your family.

Be aware that breed or breed mix is only a starting point. Yes, breeds do tend to exhibit certain traits, they are bred to do so. But there can be a wide variance between individuals within a breed - you will also need to assess the individual for a good fit with the family. And of course there is the ’nature vs nurture’ issue. How you nurture your dog - training, socialization, daily routine, family dynamics, etc. plays a huge role in the development of your dog’s character and relationship with you. Your input is as, and often more, important than the breed.

So maybe you can tell us more about your family routine, what you envision your family routine with the dog will be, what kind of activities you wish to do with your dog, how much time you can realistically give to your dog now and in the future, what your expectations for the dog are. And very important: what are the things that you cannot have in a dog, the deal breakers?

These are things that need to be taken in to account as you look at breed characteristics - but you also must be always keep in mind that the individual character and your ’nurturing’ will have a huge impact. And be prepared to roll with the punches when your XYZ breed turns out nothing like what the book said. (For instance, none of my collies bear the least resemblance to the fictional film star. )

An important point as you live in canton ZH:

In Zürich, all dogs whose adult size is expected to exceed 45cm or 15kg are classified as List 1, large dogs. These are required to do training courses above and beyond the federally mandated SKN Practical course. The ZH List 1 courses** are in three stages: Puppy (Welpenförderung), Adolescent (Junghund) and Adult (Erwachsene). Each course must be taken at the appropriate age of the dog, for a requisite number of training hours. If you adopt a dog at an older age, you will have to take more hours of the next level class.

You can read more about the ZH List 1 courses here:

http://www.veta.zh.ch/internet/gesun...usbildung.html

The database of List 1 trainers is here - be aware that certification for Welpenförderung and Erwachsene courses might be separate:

http://www.veta.zh.ch/internet/gesun...16_nachOrt.pdf

I am pointing this out in your ‘What breed?” thread because the expected adult size of the dog you choose will trigger the course List 1 classification and training obligation. If you know upfront that you are not willing or able to do the enhanced training, you cannot consider a dog that could possibly fall into the List 1 category, you would have to go with one of the small breeds. A list of the breeds by size type as defined by the canton can be found here - only the ‘Kleinwuchsig’ breeds do not fall into the enhanced training requirement.

http://www.veta.zh.ch/internet/gesun...typ-091130.pdf

A note on individuals: It is possible that an individual of a ’small’ breed might grow large enough to become a List 1 dog. That is the case with my Hooligan. She is a sheltie - and she is 52cm, far larger than the breed standard. Were I to move to canton ZH she would likely be classified as List 1 despite her breed - and I would likely have to do the course. Again when in doubt as to an individual, contact the ZH Veterinäramt for a ruling.

Also please note that 8 breeds are banned in ZH, and any mixed breed whose DNA includes more than 10% of those breeds is banned as well. The grace period for dogs of those breeds/mix already resident in the canton has long since run out - no dogs of those breeds/mixes may move into the canton, and any dog suspected of being of those breeds or a mix with those breeds who is living illegally in the canton might be seized... and possibly ordered euthanized.

More on the ZH List II dog situation in the above VETA link, scroll down to “Weitere Angaben zu Hunden der Rassetypenliste II"

The ‘Kleinwüchsig’ breeds in canton ZH only have to do the federally mandated SKN Practical course, by the way. You have 12 months to get that done. List 1 training replaces the federal SKN in canton Zürich for the larger dogs.

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Another legal issue to be aware of: Cropping of ears and docking of tails is banned at the federal level. No breeder in Switzerland may dock tails or crop ears, it is considered mutilation and rightly forbidden. But if you are considering purchasing or adopting outside of Switzerland, please understand that you cannot now import a dog who is docked or cropped.

There is an exception to this ban for families who move to Switzerland with a long time family pet that is docked or cropped. This exception is only available if you import your family pet at the same time you first move to Switzerland. But this exception is not available to you because you are already resident here.

Some breeders in other countries still practice this awful mutilation - so be aware of this restriction if you are drawn to these breeds.

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So... those are some legal things to think about that might influence your choice of dog breed or type of dog.

To my mind, though, more important is to think about what you can give a dog, what your expectations are - and then look based on that. So a bit more info from you might help up give you better suggestions.

But even more important than that - it’s a decision that should be researched from the ‘head’ but the family member who comes home to you needs to be chosen with your heart.

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Enough of my rambling for now - the Muttley Crew are calling. I’ll be back later with some thoughts on dogs in flats, the question of puppy vs. adult dog, and breeder vs. adoption. But for now the sun is shining and Heffalump says it’s time to step away from the computer and toss him a frisbee.

Welcome to Dogdom, where your time is no longer entirely your own. ;-)

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*For the pedants out there, the SKN Theory course is required of all new dog owners, that is, those who have not had a dog registered in their name in the Swiss federal database, (AMICUS formerly ANIS) prior to 1 Sept 2008. Foreigners who move to Switzerland after that date with their dog must contact the cantonal Veterinäramt for a ruling on whether the SKN Theory course is required in their case, or not. The decision is individual, based on individual records, proof, etc. So if your friend or another EF poster says ‘Well I didn’t have to do it” that does not mean you can assume you too will be excused. You have to contact the Veterinäramt yourself. And as the OP clearly states that he does not have a dog he clearly falls into the category of those who must do the course.

The same applies to the SKN practical class - all dogs acquired after 1 Sept 2008 must do the SKN Practical course within 12 months. Those who acquired the dog before that date but moved to Switzerland after it need to contact the cantonal Veterinäramt for a ruling.

** Again for the pedants: The obligation to do the ZH List 1 course is dependent on the date the dog was acquired - in this case, 31 Dec. 2010. As above, those who move to canton ZH with a dog acquired before that date but arrive after it, contact the Zürich Veterinäramt for a ruling.

For all these dates - please note that it is NOT the date the dog was born, but rather the date you acquired the dog.

meloncollie - excellent advice, I will read though your post when I get home (I am out all day but i wanted to show my appreciation by replying quick )

thanks to all for bothering to reply!

I would LOVE a beagle but I have read that they cannot be taken off the lead and I think that is a deal breaker for me! my oldest really wants to be able to take responsibility for at least one walk of the day - possibly straight after school so I need to have the confidence that if something happened she could call the dog and it would come!

Our routine, is basically in the week the kids are out at 8 and back at lunch then back to school at 1 back at 3.30. Apart form food shopping trips I am at home all day (I work from home) the evening I take the kids to various hobbies but again they are all close to home. The weekend we have loads of stuff with various clubs but nothing a dog couldn't come with and sunday is a family day, I'm hoping that it will be a good environment for a dog!

I was brought up with rescue dogs and have had good experiences but they all had issues, one didn't like men, which was fine until my mum had boyfriend and another was quite anxious, he was dumped on a doorstep so we can only assume he was beaten, he was never aggressive but very nervous.

I feel more conformable having a puppy so I know the issues and can also teach the kids that you have to put effort in to making a 'behaved dog' not just acquiring a ready trained pet ready to go if you see what I mean!

I am sure you have friends with dogs, why not start by "borrowing" different sizes and temperaments for weekends and see what fits?

Our old girl was a Labrador cross who was smaller than the average lab, and 10 when we arrived here. I was very glad she had become quieter when we had to move into an apartment. In Belgium she had a huge garden but luckily was OK with the apartment too as long as she went out at least 5 times a day.

The new one is a Border terrier, we initially looked at rescue dogs but the ones I liked all reminded me of my first so I just couldn't go there. We did a LOT of research before contacting a breeder in Switzerland to ask if we could just go to visit to see we liked them, and if she thought we might be right for the breed. She had no puppies available, which made it easier, and her help and her dogs made us sure it was the breed for us. She then helped us find one which was great as we were sure it came from a careful breeder.

I would recommend trying to contact and visit breeders with the breeds you might be interested in. Best if they don't have puppies for you to fall in love with, big brown eyes on tiny bundles of fluff are so difficult to resist.....

Good luck with your search.

yes I do, Im not going to enjoy it and I'm probably going to moan like hell about it but hey, I'm figuring you have to go through a bit of pain for that lovely cuddly gain

I am not sure I understand why walking a dog off lead is a deal breaker. There are many areas and certain times of the year where a dog cannot be walked off lead.

Even a dog who responds to recall can still be the victim of an attack because of other dogs off lead who do not respond to recall.

We own Basset Hounds, sometimes mistaken for Beagles. They can not be walked off lead though this has never been a problem for us. Basset Hounds are not for everyone as they can be very stubborn. But I think they are well suited to apartment living as long as you do not have stairs.

All our dogs are rescues, not acquired as puppies. The eldest is going on 16. I have worked from home for years and it was not difficult to manage the dogs as Basset Hounds are better off with a few short walks per day. Keeping their weight under control is very important.

If there is anything you want to know about Bassets, you can send me a PM.

Indeed. I hope my post didn't make anyone think that Beagles are to be avoided, that was certainly not my intention.

Snoopy is, at 16, still a wonderful animal, since about 8 years he has not escaped once, and can even be trusted without a leash where this is allowed.

The point was more that it is important to keep an eye on a breed's general characteristics. I grew up with Scotties, in Canada. Once they were past puppy stage they rarely needed to be on a line, nor were they particularly bothered either way. I will admit that I read the "beagles need to be on a line" and thought "Any dog can be trained with enough effort", so it took me a while to realise that I had been mistaken, and that it certainly wasn't the dog's fault. Neither were the butter, Lego, Barbie limbs, and potatoes stored in a bag under the kitchen table that went into, and later came out of him.

It wasn't that Snoopy was completely unaware of the difference between right and wrong. If you opened the front door and Snoopy was in his bed in the entranceway, with an "It was the cat!" look on his face, you knew instantly that someone had left the bathroom door open, and that the 2nd floor would be covered with shredded toilet paper.

Unfortunately, although Snoopy really missed the cat when she died, he kept on using the same excuse.

There always was a certain predictability about the fellow.

Perhaps it's because a dog off the lead will get approx. 3 miles of excercise to every 1 mile that you walk with them.

We had a Beagle when I was a kid who walked beautifully on a leash, wouldn't set foot out of the door in the rain and, if she picked a scent up, would follow it to the ends of the Earth. Most of the time, she could be recalled, but if that scent was rabbit, you could spend ages trying to get her to come back.

We had a house with large front and rear gardens, but the front garden went straight onto a road which, whilst not a main road in itself, was the primary route for trucks from a catalogue warehouse to the M6, and the rear garden backed onto a reservoir. Whilst the rear garden was reasonably secure, the problem was that we regularly had ducks and swans coming into the garden, so for the safety of all concerned, our Beagle was kept on a line which was in turn, attached to my mum's washing line that ran diagonally the length of the garden. This gave our dog access to about 80% of the garden and the ducks (remarkably and tauntingly) built their nests in the other 20%.

My second dog loved a good run and my home then had open fields on three sides. Lizzie went for a good run in the fields in the morning, and her evening walk was up the hill at the end of our road and back through woodland. It was a joy having such open space to train a dog to come back and walk to heel if another dog approached. Lizzie rarely wandered out of my sight, and when she did, she'd yelp and run back to find me. The only times that she left me was if it began to rain. She'd run home (all of 200 yds) and sit in the shed waiting for my return.

Then the Dangerous Dogs Act happened and she was never allowed off the lead again. I moved house to buy the biggest garden I could afford, purely so Lizzie had a degree of freedom. As a result, I never want to have a dog in the future that can only be walked on a lead.

Our Beagle had a thing for potatoes too, and ate the feet out of tights and socks. She even ate one arm of my mum's new leather sofa in the 20mins that she was talking to a neighbour in the back garden, but she was only 6mths old then.

Going back to Golden Retrievers and the importance of good training...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iTTNRE-njM

love that, good for him!

My main reason for walking off the lead is because I want to be able to throw ball, or a Frisbee and watch it run with my kids have fun with the freedom.

As I said I would love a Beagle I quite like the naughtiness! but I want to be able to have my dog run free when its allowed.

I have romantic notions of walking in the middle of nowhere having a picnic, the kids playing and running with the dog, me relaxing and eating good food.....

(yeah I realise that is probably not going to happen but its what im aiming for )

There is some great advice here, thankyou all. Im now really excited about finding our new family member. I think ill try and contact a few breeders and ask to meet their dogs, (hopefully they will be keen on this) once i have chosen Im happy to wait if they dont have any pups, I get this is a major decision and I m not going to rush into it.