Maybe the people who speak German are discussing something private?
Maybe the people who speak German are more comfortable conversing in German than English
Maybe the people who speak German are cheesed off with your 'speak my langauge' attitude
Maybe......
I speak a little French and zero Swiss/Swiss German and get by, each day learning a new word or phrase. Most people will be glad to help you learn, but the first step must come from you.
dave
I, too, am just learning German. I, too, can get frustrated when I don't understand what people are saying. If you have not learned to say "I'm sorry, my deutsch is not good", you need to. Make sure you lead with "I'm sorry". It's cultural respect.
This will happen with language, business, technology...lots of things. By learning to adapt, and be more open to external knowledge, you will learn more. The people who "appear" most worldly and cultural and not people who sit with a stack of books and learn languages, but instead people who are open minded and.... a very important word...TOLERANT.
Finally, remember that people as a whole are not outwardly malicious. (except under the cover of a good forum) We do what we do by nature and comfort. In this conversation it was not your nature to smile, pick up a few words and say..."ok, you guys lost me, but I'm trying. Were you talking about...subject x...??" Practicing some self-depracating humor, maturity, respect for culture and language and showing your eagerness to learn to communicate in that language will only be rewarded.
So, close this forum, and go find another uncomfortable situation. This time, learn from it instead of hating it. The more you do it, the more you develop yourself as a person.
I recall a lunch in the canteen with about 10 other people. It was soon after I had arrived in Zurich so my knowledge of German was close to nothing. I was the only one at the table who did not speak German and everyone around me were talking to each other in Swiss German, and sometimes addressing the table in Swiss German.
It was the most boring and most awkward lunch I had ever attended.
I tried to make myself feel included in the conversation by nodding and pretending that I understood, laughing when everyone else was laughing. I got tired of that pretty quickly.
As it was a social setting, I didn't think there was anything wrong with my colleagues speaking in their native language amongst themselves, and the last thing I wanted to do was bring attention to myself by requesting that everyone switch to English. So I finished my lunch in silence and quietly slipped away, hoping that nobody would notice me (they hadn't noticed me during lunch, it seemed).
To my embarrassment, some colleagues realised I had suddenly left without any parting greeting, and they immediately realised the situation. Next thing I knew, they had all got up from their table, caught up with me and guided me to the coffee room where we all sat down for coffee and they happily chatted with me in English.
In social surroundings, I think the Swiss are entitled to speak in their native language with each other. But it's just plain awkward when you are subjected to being a wallflower in most conversations.
In a business setting, I think they should be mindful of those who can't contribute in a meaningful way in German. That said, I sometimes feel quite uncomfortable when I am in a meeting with a dozen other people, and they all have to speak in English because I am the lone foreigner. I'm sure they are all thinking "Hey, there's 12 of us and one of her, so why do we have to speak in English?" It does certainly give me a lot of motivation to better my German!
And on that last point, my impression is that it takes at least a few years of learning German before one can meaningfully and confidently contribute to business meetings. Whilst I am fairly comfortable speaking German in a non-business setting, I am nowhere at a point where I can talk about derivatives and financial markets in German. And I think my colleagues understand that because I'm sure they didn't learn English overnight - most of them learnt English for 3-5 years at school and then spent 1-2 years in an English-speaking country.
Tweenie when i first moved here i could not speak any German, and having dinner with my husbands family they would start speaking English then forget, and speak Swiss German, i would nugde my husband to say hey i am here, and i do not understand anything, he would then speak English, but as soon as i was in school and started to learn German i wanted them to speak German so i could learn faster, and believe me i did
dave
Therefore, I think if anyone is going to have a problem learning languages I am one of those people.
The first time I came to Switzerland, I realistically had no German. My girlfriends mother spoke no English, so one of us had to make an effort to try to communicate. I kept a dictionary in my pocket and looked up words and had very broken single word conversations with her mother, and spoke English with her father. The more I came the more words I picked up.
Eventually I did a 1 month intensive course in Clubshule Migros, the course got me on track with the basics, but I find it really difficult to book learn anything, I need to learn by doing. So every opportunity I got I tried to speak German. I would try to use my broken German in shops and insist on it when the shop assistents changed to English, I have collegues at work who only spoke German to me, and some who only spoke English, but I tried to include myself in German conversations if every one slipped to German if we had been speaking English. I read 20 minutes, surfed some German internet sites, and just tried to pick up bits and pieces of the language here and there.
Now I do not consider myself to be anywhere close to fluent, but I can get by quite comfortably in Swiss German. I understand alot of what is said and can usually answer too. I can socialise in German and when the occasions arise that I have to do this I sometimes suprise myself with how well I do. This weekend I was at a bike event with some EF members, but I spent a lot of time speaking and socialising with locals too... Guess what... In Swiss German!
The only way I got to this point was by immersing myself when I had the oppertunity. Unfortunatley for me due to circumstances I only speak English at home with my girlfriend... Since we met in an english speaking country and spent many years together with me having no German thats just the way it evolved and she is more comfortable speaking to me in English then German, therefore I relish the opportunities that the OP is complaining about to try to help me improve my take on the local lingo.
My advice... don't see it as a problem, see it as an opportunity. Try to understand as much as you can, if you miss something ask. You will find that the things you miss get less and less, and you will understand more and more, and you will enjoy your time here much more.
Sorry for being so longwinded.
Ich wünsche eu en schönä tag (or something along those lines)
What really did annoy me was one person who kept asking me "How come you are being so quiet? Why aren't you joining in?" I wasn't quite sure how to respond to that at first. What i really wanted to say was something along the lines of Why do you think i'm not speaking? I don't understand you MORON (I've since realised he is a moron so I don't take offence). I don't think he picked up on the irony of the fact that he had to ask me in English in the first place!
The other thing that annoyed me was when they started speaking about me. I could tell because they would look at me as they spoke to each other and I would hear my name but understand nothing of what they said. That to me was just plain rude.
This time when I came back it was on a permanent contract. I've been here 6 months and have spent all that time taking an intensive course at Berlitz in Zürich. I still have trouble at lunch as everyone still speaks swiss german and i don't understand everything, but i listen and try to join in where i can or start a conversation in high german. If i don't understand their reply they usually switch to English. The same person still asks me why I don't join in more but now i reply in German and tell him I am listening to try to learn swiss german. That seems to shut him up.
dave
Too be honest one thing I do hate about living here is that it is SO EASY to survive without German most of the time, but when you do need it, you've not had the practise you need to be confident. Therefore you have to make an effort to learn the language and are not forced. If you were 'always' in the deep end' you'd learn it a lot quicker.
Myself and my partner have always worked in 'English bubbles' and it's so easy to not make an effort learning the language.
But when locals speak German, they rather speak Swiss-German than High German, in fact given the chioce H-German or English, the latter is the choice.
My latest job, is with all Swiss people, but several of them wanted to improve thier English in preparation for exams. Now that these are over I am trying to switch to German more often in conversations. But there are also some other colleages who speak several languages (3/4) but not English, so for me this is a great opportunity.
So my advice to you is suck it up and try and follow the conversation. It's hard at first (will give you the odd headache), but will get easier with time. This should encourage you to learn the language more quickly.
dave
Of course, he asks me in swiss german now and because I know what he is saying i respond in high German. We even manage a two-minute conversation sometimes so no i am not paranoid and he is certainly not an enemy.
As with the OP, your whole tone indicates hostility because you feel excluded, and as others have mentioned humility and behaving slight less aggressively : and not assuming one of the group (that did try to include you) is a moron at first meeting, will help integrate far more easily irrespective of the language spoken.
dave
I have the exact opposite reaction. If I am at a table, and German / Swiss German is being spoken, more often than not the ever polite Swiss will turn around and apologise and start speaking in English. I say in German to them. "Please continue. I like to listen and it is the only way that I am going to learn". When I am asked if i can understand, I respond with, "a tiny bit". You know what though? This is no longer my response cause I am starting to understand.
Yes i felt excluded during my 3 months here last year. I will admit that, as will one of my swiss colleagues here who recently told me she felt bad that I was so obviously being excluded from conversations despite being told that learning the language was not a pre-requisite for a 3 month contract.
But where have I been aggressive? By trying to join the conversations or starting new ones in high german where i could contribute? isn't that what you would suggest i do or should i just wait and be humble until i learn the language and then i can join in fully?
Where have I been hostile? Because I said he was a moron and still is? Just because one swiss person here is a moron doesn't make me or anyone else hostile, it makes him a moron, plain and simple.
I made no "assumption" that he was moron, you assume this happened at our first meeting. It did not, i had a fairly good chance to know him before that.
It sounds to me that you are one one being hostile here not me.