I ride the fence on this issue. Some days I feel absolutely frustrated and left out when my colleagues socialize solely in German, other days I enjoy the opportunity to practice. I just came back from lunch...today was not one of the better ones. I am a foreigner working in an international lab- there are several other people in the group who also do not speak German, but the Swiss/Germans outnumber us. When the conversation is dominated by German, those of us who don't speak the language are completely excluded.
So for those German speakers out there, it would be SOOOO nice if you'd give your non-German speaking colleagues a quick synopsis of the conversation once in a while! Just clue us in on whether your talking about politics or chocolate! (Yeah, my German is still pretty basic...)It would help us considerably with our comprehension skills and we wouldn't feel quite so excluded.
I agree that there is no reason to speak a foreign language in your own country. Americans get a lot of snide remarks about their inability to speak more than one language, but keep in mind that the majority of the population lives a few thousand miles away from the nearest non-English speaking country. However, I do think Americans (at least in my small world of academia!) try much harder to make foreign colleagues feel welcome.
I'm sorry ,if you can't see it, then I suspect the same issues will recur when faced with another unfamiliar environment. No point in further discússion.
I seriously do not get it! Do those of you with your advice to `just learn the language or shut-up/suck it up/ deal with it/you are in their country` really speak German? Because if you do and assuming you speak it as a second language, you would remember being in exactly the same frustrating position that the OP is describing.
I, for one, have really HATED being in (multiple) situations with my husband`s family or when invited to a lunch/dinner when everyone spoke the entire time in Swiss German. It really did not matter that I had been diligently studying high-German and speaking it with my husband as well as out and about because I still could not understand one word of Swiss German. Come on, people, do you seriously not remember being in that position??!!
I think oldhand said it best when she said that it motivated her to learn the language. And that is a GOOD THING. Hate is a strong emotion and if you hate these situations enough you will have to make a change somewhere, because as you already know `they` are not going to change and the change has to start with you. So sift through the advice from this forum, develop a new plan, dust yourself off, take a deep breath and give it another try.
You're right of course, I can't see it. I'm not trying to be funny here but I really don't see what you are getting at. I told a story about something that happened over a year ago that was not good. Maybe the problem is that I only told you what I wanted to say and not what I actually did say. I was very polite and simply said that I didn't understand so couldn't join in so easily. I never demanded English. I expected it, yes, but only because the person hiring me told me to expect everyone to speak English.
I followed the story with the fact that things are different now and that I am learning and joining in and listening to try to learn new words. Maybe it is just me but I really don't see how a bad experience with one person means that I am hostile and aggressive and in need of being humbled. Isn't it more likely that we simply didn't/don't get on?
I don't 'see' it either. What is your problem - why take such an unnecessarily hostile and aggressive attitude toward someone merely explaining the situation they were in.
Because some people like to blame the people around them in preference to themselves, and while you are quite welcome to say "Oh...you poor thing.." if you want, please allow me to tell it how it is.
I have emboldened a few words below in this diplomatic treatise to which I responded.
Yes I do remember being exactly in that situation, and I have tried to address the balance. I remember once doing a part time job when I was on one of my shorter trips here to visit my girlfriend. Very few people there spoke English, so I really was thrown in at the deep end. This was before I had done my one month intensive course (which is the extent of my formal German schooling). I had to carry a dictionary and translator with me. I understood nothing of the coffee break conversations. Felt embarrassed when I new people were talking about me. But part of my job entailed packing things for shipping, there were old 20min papers used to pack and if I spotted an interesting article I would read it. It helped increase my vocabulary. I would listen in on the coffee break conversations, and try to focus on the words I could understand, sometimes asking people about things I really couldn't get a grasp of. By the end of the month or so that I was there I could get the gist of the conversations, I still couldn't join in but it was a mini victory that I at least knew what they were talking about. It was one of the experiences that helped me a lot with my German/Swiss German comprehension and it was only through patience and willingness to take the opportunity that I benefited from it.
I still have occasions where I can't understand everything, or if the room is very noisy I find it hard to follow Swiss German conversations, but it will come with time and I enjoy the opportunities I get to practice.
To be honest I think Swiss German is easier then High German, I have posted something to that effect in another thread. The differences are not really that huge as most Swiss people will have you believe. They tend to shorten words, dont use der/die/das as much and generally leave out alot of the more complicated aspects of German for us anglophones. I sympathise with you if people were really unhelpfull, I have experienced this too, but generally if you don't understand something that you feel is important to the conversation just ask.
Yes I think Oldhand said it well (as always). But remember the motivation to learn anything has to come from inside. You have to want to do it. If you really want something you can turn a lot of negatives into positives.
Ha ha, this is just too funneh. I lived in the french-speaking part of switzerland for like 12 months. Alot of my friends were swiss/french. Even though they spoke fluent english, they would speak french and freeze me out of the conversation alot of the times. I, aswell, would speak swedish with the swedes that i lived even if there were swiss/french friends visiting.
I could've expressed myself in english and let everybody understand but the fact that you don't think it would intrest the "visiting friends" make you take it in mother tounge. Wether you speak of politics or if you're talking about whom should take the dish after dinner, you adapt the language to the situation and the intrests of those around you.
Since when is this forum not a place to speak openly and try and get some kind words or support when you need it most??!! Yes, I believe that you are in someone else's country and that is the way it is. However, this poster posted this comment to get some support, not to be told to "shut the **** up." This is neither nice or helpful.
My advice is to try to practice your German with one other person in the group. I am not good enough or confident enough with my German to just jump in but I can have a private conversation at the same table as others with only one other person. Then they could also translate a bit and help you understand the convo at the table.
I disagree. German is the best example of a language that is spoken exactly the way it is written.
When my colleagues tell me the correct words in German to use, I am almost always correct with the spelling. I am definately not good at spelling in English
Sounds as though this thread is degenerating a bit...
For what it's worth, my experience has been that Swiss bend over backwards to accommodate to the language abilities of those they deal with - German-Swiss, as soon as they realize they are talking to French-Swiss, don't even shift from dialect to High German but immediately go to French - and even when German-Swiss would be more comfortable talking to one another in dialect, when they have an English-speaker among them, they often switch to English. That can have its own moments when the Swiss then turn and talk to one another in English... My personal wish, though, is that we had more comprehensive language instruction in what are otherwise pretty monolingual countries like the US.
On the other hand, I talked to a Swiss a few months ago who works in a larger company that does a lot of business with Americans, and his comment was that he always felt himself at a disadvantage having to conduct business then: the Americans would talk (rapid) circles around the Swiss, whose English was good but not always up to the standards needed for the subtleties of business negotiations. So the (mildly defensive) response, he said, was for the Swiss to talk among themselves in Swiss-German...