International Divorce Questions

Family, Education, Health and Pets
1
Hello

I am currently an EF user, but for reasons of privacy, I have logged in as this screen name, and will only use it concerning this thread. I hope the Admins will understand and respect this decision, as I really feel the EF community may be able to help me.

My basic question is, is it better to file for divorce in Switzerland or France, if I was married in France? Is there a seperation time allowment needed first? Who do I see, where do I go to file in either country? What are the basic costs involved and what should I expect?

I am a US citizen, my wife is an EU, kids were born outside of the EU. Any idea of what my rights are to them? She wants to leave Switzerland, would it be better to file here, to force some parental rights on my part, or wait for her to return to France, and file there? Except I intend on staying in Switzerland.

This whole thing has been some complicated to even contemplate, and has caused me a great deal of anxiety and depression over the last couple of years. Now I see she is going to force it on her end, and I want to make sure I am entitled to my fair rights as a father, and making the financials clear.

I feel completey terrible about posting this to a public forum. It is really my last resort at this time. I have tried to ask Swiss people here, and they havent been any help, and there isnt any one so far that can answer wether it would be better to file here or there.

I have so many questions, and have almost no idea where to start from. I really out of my league, and any suggestions, advice, links, telephone numbers to lawyers, etc would be of great use.

Thank you

2
Get yourself a smart divorce lawyer quickly. Sorry can't help you with any names though as i live in Vevey not Zurich

3
These is just my opinions - I have no specific or binding knowledge of these issues - but want to chip in because I think I'm being helpful.

Although I'm not aware of international treaties regarding marriages between nationals of different countries, my_suspicion is that a_divorce_petition_may_only_be_filed_in_the_countr y_of_residence .

You probably don't have the option or right to choose the jurisdiction where divorce takes place (even tough most countries would recognize the subject's wish to get married outside their jurisdiction). Otherwise, it would surely result in "mass" divorce tourism.

I suspect that relocating (e.g. to another country), then filing for divorce within a "short time frame", would give the partner reasonable grounds to seek redress in the previous state of residence - if they so wished. However, if you both want a clean and quick break - then it might pay to relocate and get an annulment elsewhere. It might require deregistration from the Swiss population to validate it. (i.e. you leave CH married, and return single, with a divorce certificate)

If a pre-nup was made - I think it would only be upheld if the country of residence authorities recognised the concept. Even then, it might be interpreted in ways that might be different to the jurisdiction in which it was drawn up and/or agreed.

In any case, you're going to need to keep your partner "onside" and "sweet".

I'll follow this thread with interest - I'm part of a multinational relationship myself - although I have no plans of my own for divorce.

/GD

4
i'm sorry for the situation you are in and hope that you can receive some advice, suggestions, and contacts soon. best wishes for this difficult time in you and your family's life.

5
I have residency in France because I was married there. I have my B permit here because I came with my wife here. Now she is planning to move back to France, and file when she gets there. She spoke of seperation that would lead to divorce. She also has spoken like until the end of the year, we would re-group and discuss what to do with I am not sure if she means with the kids or with us.

My suspicision is she is looking to re establish residency in France, and then try to have some sort of legal grounds for full rights to the kids, and possibly keeping me out of France. I wanted to stay here, atleast until my Permit ran out, and then return to France. My Carte de Sejour is still valid past the time my Permit B, as I was told I was coming to Switzerland, I didnt have to surrender my french permit, as Switzerland was abiding by certain EU inter worker programs.

If I were to be forced to return to France under these conditions, I might so, for lack of a better word, angered, by this I might even consider returning to the states, and taking with me all that I could. I dont want that to be interpreted taking the silverware and the kitchen sink.

If there was an EU type court I think that could be best, but there isnt is there? The swiss men I have talked to here said it hasnt worked out getting a divorce here for them, but then again, they were all well off, and the wife only worked as a supplimental income.

I suppose the most important details for me, is my children, control of residency and permits, and of course financial distribution. From talking to her, I can see she isnt interested in giving up 5 rappen to me. She does make more then me, and has a terrible memory of who bought what and paid for what bill in the past...ie....she believes she has paid for everything. I am not looking for a paycheck, but whatever is fair.

6
Just check your work permit doesn't have EG/EFTA on it. If it does when your wife deregisters your permit becomes invalid. This is the situation I am in. Even though my wife, an EU citizen never worked here I was given a B permit as if I was an EU citizen. I'm actually from a 3rd country like you. So, work permit becomes invalid and the company I work for is running around like mad to reapply before I get deported. Good fun!

7
I dont know if I should be happy to get the heads up, or overly stressed that I left my B permit at home today, and wont be able to check it before 3 in the morning. But thanks all the same. What does the EG EFTA stand for? Any ideas? Perhaps I could de stress right now if I knew what that was now.

8
I have to throw my hands up now - and agree with the 1st respondent. The threat of your partner effectively doing a runner over the border means that you've got to seek legal advice on this urgently, certainly in CH - but maybe also in F .

Keep a cool and rational head. I hope that you reach the best possible arrangement for all of you.

/GD

9
Sorry, didn't mean to upset you. The EG/EFTA means you are treated as an EU citizen. I got a 5 year B permit when I first arrived even though I am from a 3rd country. basically what they do is because your wife is French she gets a B permit as soon as either of you are working full time in Switzerland. You automatically get the same permit as soon as one of you are working here. It's weird I know. I really hope your situation is different to mine.

Nobody can even tell me how quickly I will need to leave should my permit be denied. I always thought I knew what stress was. It's been 2 weeks of hell so far, and it's getting worse.

10
I found this link...

http://ec.europa.eu/civiljustice/div...orce_ec_en.htm

... which might help you to familiarise yourself with the way that things MIGHT work involving Switzerland.

For sure, you can't be the first, nor last in this unfortunate position.

/GD

11
Then, at an INTERNATIONAL level...

http://ec.europa.eu/civiljustice/div...rce_int_en.htm

/GD

12
I just called my Gemeindehaus, and they told me I do have the EG EFTA status like you said. I asked if I would lose my permit, if she left for France, and they seemed to say if I was still married when she did it, I would still keep it. As soon as I said divorce, they gave me another number to call, and they have already gone home for the day. I suppose this hangs on the deregistering aspect. Which I am certain she will do.

I am starting to get a real knot in my side. I have to talk to my boss now. Thanks for the heads up though.

13
Sorry mate. Please don't shoot the messenger.

My wife went to deregister and the gemiende woman flipped out and phoned the immigration people. In the end she didn't deregister but they weren't keen on that either. Might depend more on your canton or even your gemiende.

Good luck all the same. I feel your pain.

Edit: I just checked my permit also says: Familiennachzug. Berechtigt zur Erwerbstätigkeit.

So basically I am on a family reunification visa even though I was the only one who worked.

14
Yeah its not actually ZH canton. And no, I wasnt trying to say I was pissed with you. She isnt french either actually, her permanent residency is there, but she is actually from another country all together.

15
http://www.swisslawyers.com/en/02_re...1_adressen.htm

This is the list of the cantonal bar associations. In most cantons they offer a walk-in consultation service (costs CHF40 in Lausanne) where you can get 15-20 minutes of basic advice.

Best of luck.

16
I really do hope your situation is different to mine. Mine sux. But I would not waiste any time. Follow the other guys advice and get a legal opinion, sooner rather than later.

Good luck!

17
Another site which may be of assistance is binational.ch .

If you've got a French residence permit, perhaps you could live just over the border in France and work still in Switzerland?

18
Is it true that one parent cannot take a child out of the country without the other parents' permission? I don't know about Switzerland but USA it works that way. If it works that way here too the OP might want to check into the status of the childrens passports and prevent her taking them to France...May be worth a try...Good Luck

19
This is correct. The Hague Agreement means that she cannot take the children out of the country of residence without your permission. While you are still married then the custody is considered to be 50% until you are divorced. This means that you have equal rights to visitation, unless a court has ruled otherwise. If she takes them out of the country without your permission you are entitled to have them repatriated.

Also, you have to be resident in a country for a minimum period (usually around six months) before you can apply for a divorce.

Go and talk to these guys, they specialise in divorce for men.

20
So my Permit is an EG like your's. I contacted everyone on it, and yes, if or rather when, she de registers, then I will lose my permit as well. They sounded like if she was temporarily deregistering, then mine would be fine until it was permanent, but I dont expect any favors from her, and quite frankly would rather have some resolve then just prolonging it for a few months.

I since have talked to my employer who has said in a weeks' time they will apply for a permit for me. But I am not too optimistic. I was told at the arbeits control, can't remember the name exactly, that I would be treated like a person residing in the US, sending an app to work in Switzerland, with out looking at the fact I am already employed, and so on. I am not happy. But, as my boss said people who wait until the day or two before their permits expire, or after to take action almost never get approved, those who do it far in advance, normally isnt a problem. I wish I had his confidence though.

I have been working alot and looking into this permit issue, so I havent checked the other links provided yet, but I definitly will. Atleast one thing from opening this thread is I may still have a chance of saving my right to work here. Which is huge. My wife has been trying to convince me otherwise. Saying that I am wasting time over this (the permit situation)....ahhh....