My wife's job here in Seattle USA will be eliminated in early june however they told her there is a need for her skills in the Geneva office (and the London office which she interviewed at but the pay relative to cost of living in London was horrible). She has been in Geneva interviewing and working for a while now and is supposed to get her offer this week.
I earn 2X what she earns so my job is more important to our family's financial situation than hers but at the same time I want to be supportive and I think I would enjoy Geneva. I've emailed some recruiters and applied for some jobs in Geneva and nobody even wants to talk to me. Here in Seattle and other places in the world I have recruiters calling me asking for me and I have to turn them down. I have 10 yrs experience in SQL databases including my last 4 being in financial research at an investment firm.
They told my wife that with her job will come a permit for me to work as well and the place recruiting her took a look at my resume and said I had a great resume and should have no problem finding work in Geneva. They told her that places are not responding to my applications because I don't have a work permit yet.
So I am in a sort of pickle - do I trust the place trying to recruit my wife? I hate to give up my high paying job here only to be unemployed in Geneva. I could continue to work here and try to find a job in Geneva but that could only work out so long.
Thoughts on how job availability is for those that do have work permits? I know its pretty much impossible if you don't.
..Lots of stressful decisions on the horizon with the offer coming this week so I want to get as much info as I can now before we have to decide on the offer...
Do all spouses of someone given a permit get to work as well? For several applications I wrote a note saying my wife had an offer of employment there and received responses that without a permit I will not find a job in CH.
You would get a permit to live here; which you could convert to a permit to work I believe.
My 10 cents on this.
1/ Globally it is difficult right now with jobs.
2/ One of major industry hit it seems has been banking in the current crisis,some one say they caused it; a major employer for people with your skills in Switzerland in Geneva (and Zurich).
3/ If you come here you will be standing behind individuals with the same skills with permits, ie. at a disadvantage.
4/ If you come here you will be standing behind individuals with language skills (French in this case), ie. at a disadvantage, even if French is not strictly required.
5/ If you come here you will be standing behind individuals without a permit, holding an EU passport, ie. at a disadvantage.
Which is the greater evil, your wife unemployed in USA or yourself unemployed in Switzerland. She must be reasonably highly skilled/valued by her company to be considered for a overseas post no.
1) the poster before me has been unemployed for a long time and continues to project his situation on others who ask questions about employment.
2) While the job market is not that great, database specialists are currently in high demand , especially in finance. I know one who has several offers on her desk and turns them down in the same way you describe your situation in the US.
3) Non-EU work permits are a big issue at the moment: There is a tight lock on the numbers of permits issued right now. I know another database specialist who had a very good job contract in hand and got the permit rejected. Last week an Asian guy had his farewell drink at my company as his permit has not been renewed and he is basically sent home while having a good job and paying good taxes.
So: If you do get the permit, I would come. The market is good for you and if you are in, the competition is currently actually quite low as foreigners cannot get in so easily right now!
However: Only act when you have the confirmed permit and do not trust anything like "It usually works out"... we do not have the usual times right now.
I do not live in Geneva, so I only know the Zurich market well. I am sure you would find enployment quickly with your skillset, you could PM me and I could give you two employers who have opnenings... but this is once again not Geneva.
just to second this. I know a good DBA and they confirmed that in Zurich there is lots of available work for proper DBA's (enterprise exp, financial etc).
Geneva I'm afraid I can't comment on but if your a high end DBA I would be suprised if you are looking long.
This is true. You will be issued a resident permit that mirrors the one she will receive (L/B). When you are offered a job, your employer will apply for a work permit that is contingent on your wife's work permit. This is not the same as a first time permit application and is not subject to the recent permit reductions.
My wife and I were in the same spot when we moved here, both US citizens. She stayed on at her job in the US until her resident permit was approved which was about a month after my work permit. That way she had still had her job in the event that something unexpected happened with either one of our permit applications.
She was able to find a job very easily when moving here because she had a specialized skill and her work permit was approved within a week.
One thing to keep in mind. Your work permit will be dependent on your resident permit, which will be dependent on your wife's work permit. Meaning if she quits or loses her job, you will lose yours.
If you and your wife can handle a month or 2 apart, it may be wise to let her feel out her job to see if it something she enjoys.
The OP has also lived in Vaud for amost ten years, and left reluctantly to find work in Zurich. Geneva is smack bang next to France, as Basel is to Germany. That means you have a very significant number of French applicants to compete with with EU passports.
If the demand was so great then the agencies you had spoken to would be coming back to you, assuming you have explained your position to them; they are evidently less optimistic/more realistic.
Forget agencies and apply direct; making sure you send an application letter with your CV explaining your plans to come here. I am not a DBA, it makes no difference to my situation if you come or not.
From experience I can tell you that if your Wife gets a B-permit to work here you will get a dependant B-permit, which means you can live here but not work. If/when you find a job and get an offer, then your prospective employer will have to apply to the immigration office to change your permit to a full working one. Since they already gave you the right to stay here it seems like a formality to allow you to work, but as with anything in Switzerland, every case is individual and you never know what they will decide.
As for Jobs in Switzerland, I work in Finance IT the market has picked up, and it true that due to the market here being so small its very difficult to find good people, so if you are any good you should be able to find something. But again due to the market being small, you don’t get the variety of roles you would in other cities and so you might end up taking something less senior or challenging.
In your situation I would also weigh up the finances, in terms of the living costing in Switzerland are much higher then the US, even with the favorable tax rates, you might find it difficult to maintain the life style you want unless you get a similarly well paid job here. Why don’t you call a few agencies and speak to them directly and tell them that you are moving (cut out the if and maybes, as they will be less keen to talk) and ask them about the job market. Then do a few visits with your family and check out the place and job market and perhaps visit agencies face to face and see everything for yourself.
The tax rates in Geneva are also among the highest in Switzerland too. HR should be able to give your wife an indication of what her take home pay will be; you can find tax calculator references in EF too. Try this one for a start.
That was my concern as well, if they were that interested then I'd think they would reply back and ask me for more details rather than a blanket no or non response. I have not seen many postings on the websites I've looked at - a few here and there and I think often its been a recruiting agency not the company itself. Technically I am not a DBA - I am more of a database architect / data analyst (I did DBA for years but moved to the development/design side) with all my recent work being in very large databases/data warehouses. The financial company I work at now deals primarily with futures. I am quite well paid (converted would be around 140k franc annually if you include bonuses, though I am not saying I would require same salary in CH) and since I have had to interview others for a similar spot in one of our branches I know my skills are rare but who knows if there is a need in Geneva.
Thanks for the clarification on the living vs. work permits. Obviously the branch trying to get my wife to work there is painting as rosy of a picture as possible. As I understand it permits in CH are assigned areas - so I couldn't live in Geneva but work remotely for a company in Zurich - is that correct?
As far as french goes, its a requirement for my wife's job so they are paying for the whole family to get french lessons if she takes the transfer. She works in HR and recruiting so, while she is quite good, companies have been trimming their HR departments left and right in this economy so she's had a difficult time with employment of late despite everywhere she has worked declaring how much they love her work.
I know it would be an adjustment in our living as we have a house now etc - but I think that would be offset by the fact that my wife and I love to travel and Switzerland is good for that (middle of europe plus better vacation time) and we love mountains (skiing in winter, hiking in summer) as well as dogs - and according to my wife, who is there right now, Geneva is perfect for the things we like to do.
Thanks for all the info... I am so nervous about this decision. I hope and pray the offer she gets later this week is either so good that we know we have to take it or so poor we know it won't work.
Excited and terrified at the same time is about how I feel now.
Permits are linked to employers not areas. So you could work in Zurich with a wife working in Geneva... that said the two are at least 3 hours apart by train, so it isn't really a realistic option no.
If you own a house in the US, you could rent it out I guess through an agency which would bring in another income, depending of course where it is; the local market etc etc.
Surprised French is a requirement and they are prepared to teach her French, she must have some grounding in it? Learning a foreign language is not trivial pass time? And takes months to become proficient, nay longer.
Can you get a sabbatical at your current place of work; a year off? You could come here, try it out, be self employed for a while, if you find something else great, if you dont well its a great place to be in between jobs really. If nothing comes up in a year then move back and ask your wife to call it quits and come home too.
But listen if she's in HR she is in a prime position to find you something within her company surely, she has access to all the information you need; the jobs, the pay grades, the company policies on permits, relocation policies etc etc.
Not sure how it works in other parts of the world, but often companies here will allow tech workers to work remotely with coming in to the office only at set intervals - for example living in Geneva but coming in to work in Zurich for one week every other month. Its not ideal but might be an option.
Thats the plan, however we plan to rent the house for only around what the mortgage is so its not a money making venture. It is not a good time to sell and we would like to have the house to fall back on in case something happens and Switzerland doesn't work.
True, but she taught herself to read and write Greek - she is good with languages. Unfortunately the only languages I am good with are programming languages
I WISH!! I will talk to them about taking a pay cut and working remotely on contract ... but not until after everything is finalized with my wife. Other people have asked for special work requests and instead of being told no, they were shown the door.
Yes... They told me they would love to hire me but they don't have the permits or positions matching my expertise open at this time. Seems that is a common answer these days.
"One thing to keep in mind. Your work permit will be dependent on your resident permit, which will be dependent on your wife's work permit. Meaning if she quits or loses her job, you will lose yours.
If you and your wife can handle a month or 2 apart, it may be wise to let her feel out her job to see if it something she enjoys."
Mine certainly isnt. Admittedly I am an EU citizen but I have an unrestricted B permit which I got after my L one in the first year. Outside the EU it may be different.
Indeed, however she has already been working in the Geneva office for over a month now so she has a pretty good idea of work there. I believe the job is a 2 year minimum contract. If she quits in < 2 yrs she has to pay back the moving expenses, french lessons etc, however if they terminate the job they have to pay her for moving back to usa etc. I heard the package they are offering other transfers includes a monthly stipend to pay for a large portion of rent + utilities etc. So it might be a great deal - we just don't have the official job offer yet with all the details. As she has seen with other people its not a done deal till you get all the paperwork (some others were verbally offered transfer from USA but then the work permit did not work out so they instead gave to EU transfer so we aren't counting on anything till we have a written offer).
Anyone have any more insight on how hard or easy it is to change from a living to a work permit? Will companies be nervous that my permit is dependant on my wife's? Any tips on how I should approach the topic when talking to prospective employers?
I live in Geneva but work contract as opposed to permie but given the number of calls/offers I get at the moment seems to be about 1 in Geneva region to 5+ in Zurich region.
I get about the same amount of calls to work somewhere else in Europe as the number in Zurich. (so there seems to be reasonable amount of work coming out of Zurich)
I am in a similar line of work as yourself with over 20+ years of experience. (not exactly but close enough)
Currently there is huge competition here in Geneva as there is a lot of people including French border workers who lost there jobs in the last year/two who are desperate for jobs, I know some of them!
Situation not so different in many parts of the western world I guess but hope it gives you a bit of an idea of the current situation. "It ain't no walk in the park at the moment".
There is work here but remember a lot depends on the permit you get!