Lausanne international schools and unique needs

Family, Education, Health and Pets
1
Hello

We are a family of four planning to move to Lausanne over the summer from the United States. We have an 8 year old and a 12 year old, both with unique needs. One is a profoundly gifted child with all round interests (good at sports, music and outstanding at academics, has been grade skipped). The second is an active child that goes to a Chinese immersion school in the US (first language for him is Mandarin at school, although no one in our family speaks it). He is fluent with English too. (We live in the US after all ).

I am wondering if anyone has experience with either of these kinds of unusual needs in children and how open the local schools are to dealing with it. We will probably be able to get a private tutor in Chinese (are they available in Lausanne?) for the one kid, but were wondering if anyone has had a profoundly gifted child and how they are treated by the school in terms of accelerated classes etc.) For example, would they let him take a Math course in a grade 3 times above his current grade...that type of thing. Many thanks for sharing your wisdom.

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They may, or they may not.

The purpose of schooling here is not purely academic. There is a social element to it and it is, in my opinion, quite rightly important. It doesn't really matter how gifted your son is. If he cannot socially cope with the environment that he is academically placed within if acceleration takes place, then he will be removed from there.

To be blunt, if you want a hothouse atmosphere then stay away from the majority of schools within Europe. They do not believe in that type of "education". You would be much better served in a school in the US or the Far East (Exeter or the Anglo-Chinese School come to mind). At a pinch, there are schools in the UK that will veer towards that direction, but not completely so.

3
it all depends on your definition of profoundly gifted.

a lot of 4 year old children in my neighborhood speak at least 3 languages but no one considers that to be special.

let them be children. they will have plenty of time to work in their life

4
I completely agree with you that the purpose of schooling should not be completely academic. Perhaps I should clarify a bit. I don't mean that I want what you call a hothouse atmosphere. I must add that he currently attends the local university for one class (once or sometimes twice a week) and is perfectly comfortable socially in that as well as his grade accelerated environment. So I am not worried about that portion. I am just wondering if he would be permitted to accelerate learning to his pace if/when the need came up.

Thanks.

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You are absolutely right about that k_and_e No I don't mean in that way. He was tested early on and found to have an extraordinarily high IQ (It was around 170 when he was 7) He has been doing courses with the rigor of university level for the last couple of years. He is in a great school now in the US with kids similar and different from him and enjoys school and school work very much. I think a good part of it has to do with the flexibility of the curriculum here and I was wondering if that kind of thing is available there. And yes we speak three languages at home (plus one of my kids speaks Mandarin about which the rest of us have a clue) but no, I am not counting that Thanks.

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If he is in a great school which you find totally satisfactory where you are- I'd advise you to stay. As said above, it is just not the way here- even in private schools.

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Good evening!

Her are some random thoughts on your post - feel free to disregard/disagree as you wish - your original post was relatively brief so I may be making some quite incorrect assumptions in my comments - for which I apologise in advance. First of all, my main assumption (as you do not mention it) is that your children do not speak French.

Your children will need to learn fluent french. Profoundly gifted or not, this is not something that will be achieved in a few months. Language learning is a brilliant intellectual workout for clever kids (I'm pretty sure you are convinced of this already otherwise why would you have sent one of your children to chinese immersion school) so in the first instance, your children will be stretched and challenged simply by having to acquire the host language.

Many of us are parents to children who speak different languages to those that we speak. My British son did 6 years of schooling in the German speaking part of CH and Swiss German/German effectively became his mother tongue. We moved to the French speaking part and now he attends bilingual public school (German/French) as well as speaking English at home. He is not unusual. So do not worry about child 2 and the fact that no one speaks his language at home - it is common to many of us! Of course, maintaining his Mandarin will be hard work but you have identified this as an important part of your educational plan for when you arrive here. A Chinese au pair might work wonders for you.

Swiss schools do recognise children with high potential (we tend to shy away from the gifted terminology .. not sure why). They frequently will advance children between grades when it is shown that there is a clear need. To show this usually involves assessment by the cantonal educational psychologist. What might well queer your pitch is the fact that your eldest does not speak French. They may not be so keen to deal with his high potential until he has at least a certain fluency under his belt. Having said this, my eldest was moved up a year after 14 months in school (and so 14 months exposure to learning German) so you may not have to wait so long. Programmes also exist for children with high potential to broaden and compliment the school curriculum. Note the approach here is to widen and deepen rather than to fast track.

As Tuborg has said, much emphasis is put on the social well being of the child and if your eldest is a well rounded, sociable individual then they will see his success in non academic fields as of equal importance to the academics. When you first move, his language lacuna will make it initially tricky to integrate socially and this will be considered as important before any recommendation is made to advance him up a year in school. Additionally, music language is NOT universal (as I know being a musician having had to learn in German and now in French) and it is probable that at his new school, he will be learning new and different sports. These are all fresh challenges that will fill up his time and keep him on his toes.

Finally, consider how your eldest will feel during these first few months in Switzerland - plunging from a world where everything is understandable and an exciting and adrenalin spiking challenge to barely being able to understand what class is coming up next and where the sports hall is. This is a huge challenge for any child and high potential children especially find themselves in uncharted waters - that of being unable to easily achieve things that had previously been a total breeze to them. Consider carefully how and if your eldest will need support.

Most of all, the best of luck!

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Hello, first of all, heartfelt thanks for your detailed and thoughtful response. I truly appreciate it as I sit in this corner of the world wondering about our next steps.

Yes, you are right. None of us speak any French.

Yes I agree with the idea of challenging the kids by having them learn the language. I think that is one of the many reasons my little one is in immersion.

I love the idea of a Chinese au pair rather than a tutor! Thank you. I would never have thought of it myself. I will certainly explore the option.

ecb, what a relief to know that the possibility exists! I do agree it is important for the child to be well rounded and sociable, I truly don't have any issues with him at all (Totally different story with the Chinese speaking kid #2 ) I would like him to be as happy in school as he is right now. The current school he is in is all about widening and deepening knowledge (in addition to a small amount of fast track) and that is what makes this place so special. Yes, it is a public school system in the United States (and they don't generally have a good reputation, my kids have gone to school in 4 of the 50 states!) and I have to pinch myself every day to make sure I am not dreaming I am loathe to move but you gotta do what you gotta do I suppose.

Thank you. This is all absolutely along my line of thought (and worry). Which is why I am considering a completely English speaking school (ISL?) to ease the transition. The other important factor is that the move will be temporary (2-3 years) and then we will be back to where we are in the US right now. I am not sure whether it is worth subjecting them to another language learning curve at this point.

Goodness me! You have thrown a wrench in the works by telling me the language of music is not the same around the world!!! Yikes...my poor violinist/oboist will be learning to play violin in French. Oh well we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. I think that would be good thing actually as would learning new sports. I'm perfectly fine with all of that and even looking forward to it.

I apologize for not giving enough information in the first post. This is all new to me and I didn't want to ramble too much and drive you all crazy

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I am just a little confused here. You say your child is super gifted and needs extra education/stimulation- and now that you have the opportunity for said child to learn a new language naturally, in a new environment- and also adjust notation for music- it will be too much (it will take a bright child a couple of weeks to adjust this). Just wondering why Mandarin is important- when it is not something which is part of your culture and background- but a few years of French is seen as not worhtwhile. The 'transition' as you call it, adjusting and learning a new language- is the perfect way to extend your child's learning. He could pick up Mandarin again at a later stage, perhaps.

Each to their own of course- personally I feel that real challenges extend and open the mind better than artificial ones. As ecb says, good luck and hope it works out for you.

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Pardon the confusion. I was asking if it will be too much. I am trying to figure out approximately how long it will take for a child to adjust to this keeping in mind of course that kids are different.

Good question! Sorry I didn't explain earlier. Mandarin immersion is offered in our public school as a choice in Kindergarten (you can pick either Mandarin or English) and we knew our second child has a flair for languages and so we chose Mandarin immersion. I am not saying a few years of French is not worthwhile, just trying to weigh the pros and cons of continuing an English environment so we will be able to give our older child the best support we personally can (and as we will be there on a temporary basis) vs. letting him be challenged by putting him in a French speaking environment.

As you can see, I am more worried about my older one than the younger one. I can see the little fella easily slipping into a French speaking environment and hopefully retaining some of his Mandarin fluency with external help.

For the 12 yo, I am glad to hear from ecb that Swiss schools are accommodating to kids of high potential. OTOH, I am nervous about everything being new and challenging to him at the same time (because of his age and grade level) but I am not opposed to it. I am just wondering IF it would be too much and if anyone else had experience with that on the forum.

My thanks to everyone for their input. It is helping clear things up for me too on the possibilities that exist. I confess I just heard the news of our relocation and am still wrestling with it

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If you're only planning to stay for 2-3 years then the international school might be your best bet.

As far as I know age 12 is a pretty important year as far as streaming, academic levels and secondary school ( well at least in Zurich)

The Swiss system, in terms of academic standards, expected behaviour, tests etc is very different from the Uk system, and I'm sure the Us system too.

Moving to a totally differnt country is challenge for kids as it is, without taking the language into account. If your jut here for the short term then IMO the international route is well worth consideration.

As far as gifted kids go IMO opinion the Swiss system doesn't serve them so well. Speaking just for Kanton Zurich there is one school for German speaking gifted and talented children Talenta. It's almost impossible to get into as one parents get their children in they do not leave.

In Swiss school a talented child (once they have gone through the procedure to establish they are g&t) might be given extra work in their area, but often this can take a long time to come about and a frustrated and unhappy child can be the result. This is my direct experience form seeing my sons best friend.

Going local your guide to swiss schooling a book recently published may be of use to you. Also maybe google talented kids and Switzerland I think there is a website which lists some schools which help g&t kids.

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Hi, welcome. Let's see. I'm on the other side of the country, not Lausanne, so can't speak to the particulars. But as far as stimulating your kids, here are some thoughts based on our overseas experiences first at ages 5 and 9 and then at 12 and 16:

1) Consider giving them a head-start in French before they arrive (Michel Thomas, maybe? I haven't used them but Rosetta Stone wasn't analytical enough for my kids, though it did get them started.) Having enough to have a basic idea of what's going on makes a huge difference in making friends. Concordia Language Villages does very well-regarded immersion camps for kids.

2) Consider taking on-line (breadth and depth, not acceleration) classes through artofproblemsolving.com, if they have the time and interest.

3) My impression that in most schools here the curriculum isn't very flexible, and the main accommodation that's made is acceleration (skipping grades). Things do speed up quite a bit in gymnasium compared to primary school, though.

4) Music has been a great way to integrate -- there's a limited vocab and a lot of clues about what is trying to be conveyed, as well as an instant community, esp. with chamber music. You're right, music is one of the routes in.

5) I totally second the idea of a Chinese nanny -- if you can find one -- it is absolutely the best way to support a truly foreign language, i.e. that isn't the language of the home or the community. It worked wonders for us, not to mention the friendship that develops. But even if you drop the Mandarin for the time being, the foundation of being able to hear and produce the tones will still be there when he/she gets back to it.

6) Most importantly, I also second the idea of seeing this as an ideal learning opportunity, for two reasons:

6a) What better way to learn a language? learning German(French for you) for "free" (in the sense of naturally, not being something tacked on) was one of our motivations to come here, one of the gifts that this time brings us. I see that you are weighing the pros and cons of this, and yes, they'll need support for the stress of it, but it's worth it. In some ways, adding languages gets easier the more you do, and before puberty is the time for it, to end up with a native-like accent.

6b) I think you may already be clued in on this, but the experience of things being difficult is one of the most important experiences for profoundly gifted kids to have, and one you should seek out if they haven't had it. Check out this link [ [http://www.nymag.com/news/features/27840/index.html]](http://www.nymag.com/news/features/27840/index.html]) or Google "How not to talk to your kids: the inverse power of praise" or PM me for other articles.

7) I assume you know about the Davidson Young Scholars program, for support?

8) In Kanton Zürich, there is a school called Talenta ( www.talenta.org ). Maybe they can give you recommendations for Lausanne.

Sorry, I was writing in parallel and I see that some of what I have written above is redundant or irrelevant.

13
Superbee, this might be hard for you to imagine doing, but have you considered just letting your 12 year old experience Switzerland as he encounters it. I don't know where in the US you are, but know most public schools of any reputation will be requiring at least a couple of years of a foreign language on an AP-honours track. Even if he has another one or two already (can't remember from your original post) French is always a solid addition, and if he isn't challenged (wait for HIM to ask!) there will be Latin and German on offer or required.

The music will be great! At least CH uses similar notation system to US and not crotchets, minims etc. as in UK. Dynamics, techniques, compositional structures, etc. might reach new depths of understanding and appreciation closer to their origins (unless he is really into Glass and Reich). He could maybe attend one of the summer music festivals aimed at young talented musicians...

Maybe he decides he really wants to get good at rock climbing or some other outdoors activity, with nature's paradise on his doorstep.

Let him be a boy, YOLO! ...and if he is bored I'm sure he'll find something to take his mind off it. When he returns to the US he will be kilometers ahead (and fluent in metric too on a practical basis, not just a memorised conversion factor)

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Speaking as someone who also grew up "profoundly gifted" (170 IQ through my last test at age 12, for whatever that is worth, which is precious little in my opinion) I'll venture that adapting to a new culture in a foreign language, with the expectation he will learn another shortly thereafter, will probably be plenty stimulating for quite some time. I might speak to the school directly about some of the math classes, that he isn't in a two year holding pattern on it, but frankly, unless he plans to be a mathematician, I hardly see that as a life-changer. I would like to break one of my cardinal rules and offer some unsolicited advice, however.

The way in which you write about him just gives me the willies. My own parents were a bit more laid back because my older sister (also "profoundly gifted") was pushed ahead and rebelled hard and struggled mightily. Whilst I struggled socially as well, I probably COULD have handled the academic pressure like it was nothing. But the academic challenge wasn't what I needed, it was the social adaptation. (For the record, I chalk this up to personality - my sister is legendary for her ability to instantly make friends, and is also a stand up comedian now.) In particular, your repeated use of the phrase "profoundly gifted" and citing his IQ resonate hard with the parents of other students in the various gifted programs I was in, and lot of these stories don't have happy endings, to date. Maybe I am reading too much into it (wouldn't be the first time) but like I said, it just struck a very familiar chord with me.

If he advancing these activities out of his own curiousity, I have nothing to say - god bless you for supporting and encouraging him. In every case, a chance to experience another culture and language is a huge, and wonderful opportunity, along with an immense challenge, and I applaud you for thinking of this in the light of how to best integrate into the local culture. There are going to be good and bad days, but I personally this experience will do wonders for your children, and they will treasure it as they become adults. I wish you all the best of luck.

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My son is almost 8 and also diagnosed as high potential, with all the issues that come with it.

As he was very bored in class we (teachers and psychologist and I) decided to make him skip a year. He also spends one morning per week in a special class for 'gifted' children, where they do extra curricular activities. It helps him tremedously, not only to be a bit challenged but also to be with kids 'like him'.

He goes to public school, by the way.

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Fantastic advice! In your case, I think the well-being of your children (and hence not moving them) is more important than professional aspirations.

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After a semester of getting used to the language of the different subjects, at least one my kids' teachers here have been willing to have them do their own more advanced work while sitting in class with the others who are doing topics mine have done before. We hesitated to ask for this permission but they were going out of their heads with boredom and this was a way they could have permission to think about something challenging yet still be with their classmates.

By the way, do/will the kids see this as an adventure? Don't necessarily ask them out loud, but what's your sense from knowing them, and from knowing what attitude you're projecting? From my experiences with other families going to live in different places, this makes a big difference in their experience once there.

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Well, I'll actually now go against my own advice You could also accept that the move, learning about a new culture, a new language or 2, adapt in so many ways- will be so valuable in itself and add greatly to their well-being and development- albeit in a different way- relax, enjoy and embrace- but only if.

One of our daughters chose to come here for 1 term when she was 12- and what she gained, as compared to what she had to catch up on on return- was just invaluable- in 100s of ways.

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Question: the OP says her eldest has already skipped (at least) one grade. How likely are teachers here to consider a second or additional skip? I know that having kids one year older/younger than their classmates is one thing, but can imagine that having (for example) a 13-year-old in a class of 16- to 17-year-olds is both socially and physically a different proposition, and possibly a harder sell.

Anyone have experience with this here?

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Here in Neuchâtel it just would not happen- for reasons you state. Friends of mine have done this in France- and in all cases the result turned out negative (which does not mean it can't be positive for some)- with rebellion and social integration problems.