Leaving Switzerland, family issues

Visas, Permits, Passports and Naturalization
1
Hi, can anyone help me in clarifying this issue I am having.

I am an EU-citizen living in CH for almost 7 years. Both myself and my children (younger than 18) have our C-permits . My wife , on the other hand is a non-EU citizen and still only has a B-permit , and as far as working in CH, I know that she can as long as I am still in CH.

My work situation in CH has been and still is very bleek due to the highly specialised nature of my job and the fact that my type of industry is very limited in CH. I have received an excellent job offer in another country but my wife refuses to move. However, not moving will result in our financial situation becoming totally comprimised and our children not being able to go to their current school (private).

I know that I can leave CH for six months at a time before losing my C-permit, but what I want to have clarified is the following:- Will my wife be forced to leave CH after the six month period is up ? or can she still find ways to try to stay ? or can someone point me in the right direction as to what the Swiss law says regarding such a topic ?

I know it sounds like a weird question to ask, but I am trying to look out for the interests of our family, and my children's future.

Thanx

2

Why has your wife only got a B permit when you have a C? Even though she is non-EU I would have thought she’d get a C at the same time you did.

I’m not sure, but I would guess that her permit is tied to yours so if you leave then she will have to as well. As a non-EU the only way she could stay on her own would be if her employer can make a case for continuing to keep her in her job rather than having to hire a Swiss/EU national to replace her.

3
You can stay out for several years provided that you tell them ahead of time.

Tom

4
Thanx for your reply. As far as I understand, each individual is treated on the basis of their nationality. I am guessing but it could be to prevent false marriages. So, once my wife obtains EU citezenship, she would then switch to a C-permit as well. Ofcourse, at this point it would be impossible to move her unless at her own will.

5

Can’t see it would matter. I’m American/British, but I entered Switzerland as an American with a British husband. I got my C permit at the same time he got his. As far as the authorities go, I’m American even down to the fact that hubby’s records are filed in the European section and mine are in the American bit. Mind you that was back in 2003, so maybe the rules have changed since then.

6
Hi speedQUagga

If your wife is not working and if her B permit is based on your marriage, then she will have to leave the country with you, since it expires together with your moving abroad. If she does not leave she will break the mirgration law and it can be come VERY apooky if they find out, including a prohibition period from re-entering the country, fine ans so on.

If you, for instance lose your C permit because you stay away for more than 6 month, but after that you will want to come back to Switzerland (and find a new job here), you can ask to have your C permit to be re-established. I know people where it worked perfectly well.

7

I think there are several questions you need to ask yourself:

Do you ever plan to return to Switzerland to live? If so, then St2lemans’ idea of contacting the authorities is worth following up. If your family stays here and you have a permanent address I don’t think it would be too much of a problem to keep your C permit. But can you live away from your family for long periods? Do you want to?

If you aren’t planning on coming back in the future, then unless there’s some way your wife can change her permit so it’s not tied to yours, which I think is not really possible as she is non-EU, then she will either have to move with you or face the possibility of being deported if the authorities find out she’s still here illegally. If that happens she would face being banned from entering the country for some years, if not permanently.

8
the rules about putting your C permit on hold (for up to 4 years) are here

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/dam/...regelung-d.pdf

under

3.4.4 Aufrechterhaltung der Niederlassungsbewilligung während eines Auslandaufenthalts - Page 32

You could also look to see when the expiry date is on your wife's B-permit, if you change country and her permit is linked to yours, I can't see them bringing the expiry date forward.

9
Thank you all for the info you have given me, it is really worth while considering.

I know that I definitely will need to leave Switzerland for now, but I dont know whether I would want to close the doors forever.....one can never know, but I could never be parted from my kids, and my wife takes full advantage of that.....so the idea is to leave for now, but with my family following a maximum of six months later, even if forced by the authorities.

10
I would be very careful about the decisions that you are making - if the marriage is 'on the rocks' then it could easily be seen as 'abandoning' your family, which may not be seen positively in any custody type proceedings. If the children have the permission to stay in Switzerland, then your wife could also argue that she should be allowed to stay (especially if she has a job and a way to support herself)... or return to her home country...

If the relationship is so fractured that you are relying on a particular outcome from the authorities, I would be quite worried.

11
The reason you got your permit the same time is because you are a US citizen. The same applies to Canadians. For any other nations, even though tied to an EU citizen, they still receive a B for a 2nd 5 year term.

12
I wouldn't say that our relationship is on the rocks but alot of the problems are created by our current situation. I am currently unemployed, and even though I saw it coming well in advance, I have not managed to get a single job in the past 5 months as my industry is very limited here in CH. My wife lost her job 6 months ago and is now only working 50% of the time. With our two children in private school, we were battling with both of us working fulltime, now, its near impossible, as well as the fact that the unemployment insurance is refusing to pay out my first month due to contractual issues. At least in moving back to "her home country", they will still be able to get an excellent education, especially for my older child who has two years to go. Its only a matter of time before the private school here will put their foot down and stop them from attending due to accounts seriously in arrears. At which point, my child will be the one that suffers, and I dont see that as being very fair, especially since she was messed around for 4 years in the normal federal schools.

13

Well, I hope you get some good news soon. Difficult decisions are always hard on family, even when you’re trying to do the right thing.

14
I can understand the stress of the position that you are in at the moment.

Not answering your question at all, but something that I have often considered over many years: private schools - why? If people can afford them, okay, but for those who have never had that option, sending the children to a public scholl still works out, with children graduating and going on to further education, satisfying careers etc.

IF I was in the position of being short of money ( have been) and had children to educate, I would be using the public system of whichever country. (did that) If I found that that my child was only going to do well if sent to an expensive, fee-paying school, I would be having a serious talk to that child about the financial options ( have not had to do that) and what could be done with the money instead of it going on school fees.

One incompatible teacher/student relationship, or even one year of underacheivent, does not make a whole system bad.

Yours is the second case this week where I have heard of a parent on diminished finances, giving a child's private school education as one of the reasons for moving countries. If those children can do well in the private system, they can also do well in the public system, whilst saving the family 25,000 + per child, per year. That could make a hge difference to your family finances.

Now, back to your post: I am a bit unsure - you said your wife is refusing to leave Switzerland. However, you are talking about schools back in her home country. Is she willing to go back there? Or is what you are hoping she will be her only choice if she cannot keep her B permit after you leave? Is that the country that you are hoping to be gatting a job?

What are the other options? You working out of Switzerland, but coming back often enough to keep the C permit, so that your wife can continue to work here on her B? ( and hopefully her work going back to 100%)

You looking for work in a different field here?

You continuing to seek work here in your field? ( cut expenses by going back to the public school system. )

What are your wife's reasons for refusing to move? Her career? The lifestyle? Children's education? ( irrelevent. They will adapt.) Or ( sorry, this is harsh) is it an excuse to put distance between her and you? Some relationships actually work better as part-time ones, than on a daily basis.

If you move for a job, she doesn't, and it works out, then great. If it actually causes more problems thanit solves, then either coe back, or have her come and join you because she wants to ( not because she is forced to.)

I wish you,her, and your children, a lot of good luck with your decision making.

15
My kids started out in the normal swiss schools, and every parent teacher meeting that I would ask to have with the teachers, we were told that he was progressing and "integrating" very well....for them "integration" seems to be key, and not the childs potential. What I found very strange was that they never gave official grades for the subjects, and on confronting them about this issue, was told that based on his grades, he would not even be allowed to remain in the high level class, and that it had been a mistake of theirs simply due to the lack of space in the lower level classes. Midway through the last year of progimnasium, I asked for another meeting with the teachers and guidance councellor at the school, and, for the first time, pulled out his non official grades and clearly told us that he was not gimnasium / university material, for the reason that he had come into the schooling system too late and, although he made massive strides with his german, was not at the level of the other children. I even asked them to allow him to repeat the year, but they would not hear of it....."integration" was important. For 4 years I saw my child coming home unhappy, tense with nausea, even to the point of vomiting, and still working as hard as he could, studying until late hours of the evening, going to extra classes to try and do whatever was needed to get into the gimnasium. Hence, why now he is in the private school, tuition in english, and doing very well. I cant say I am a fan of the swiss federal school system. So that was our motivation.

As for my wife's home country, its also mine, even though I have EU citizenship. Her biggest concern is security, although, nothing ever happened. Her biggest fear is of being violated, but this is the case for any major city in the western world these days and one needs to watch their back wherever they are. Things are however improving. In terms of our way of life, one cannot compare to europe. What we managed to achieve there, not even half we did here. We have a beautiful property there, family, friends. There are many factors.

The point is that I want to have my family with me all the time, I dont want to be having to work in one country and my family living in another, and me seeing them once every two weeks. Wight now, the way things, are, I would be forced to get another job elsewhere in Europe, as I have had to already do before, and be apart from my wife and kids. Its not what I want, or ever wanted. So this is my motivation to go back "home", and to pick up where we left off, plus the fact that I have the opportunity to develop my career further with a good job offer.

I love my wife dearly and have no intention of splitting up, but I feel that in some way, I need to force things in the right direction before we seriously drown here, and, was hoping, that with a little help from the authorities and the permit story, I can.

I think that the best way is to speak directly with the immigration office and ee what they have to say. Hopefully, they can give me the answers I am looking for.

I hope I clarified things up a little, and thanx to everyone for all your posts and advice regarding this subject. Its much appreciated.

16
Why is this important?

17
Well, its detracted from the focus of my original posting, but my son wants to study either dentistry, architecture, or become a chartered accountant, henc he needs uni.

18
For Dentistry he needs Uni, but not for Architecture or Accounting, he could reach both goals with an Apprenticeship, Berufsmatura and Hoehere Fachschule.

19
Wow, that's quite some aspirations for kid in primary school. I'm quite sure when I was that age I wanted to be a footballer or an Astronaut, I certainly had no desire to be anything so dull as a chartered accountant (I doubt I even knew what one of those was).

20
I don't know you at all, but from your posts I would say that your relationship IS on the rocks. You're willing to leave and allow the authorities to force your family to join you elsewhere because you're convinced you're right. But it sounds like your wife and children would prefer to be here. Who wins??

Aside from that, you have what sounds like significant debt from your children's private schooling. I think that would have to be sorted before you could leave the country, else it would most certainly jeopardize any return.

You don't have a job lined up wherever you're thinking of going. How do you plan to meet expenses in two countries?

Just some thoughts. Sorry to hear you're in a rough spot and hope you can get it sorted.