Leaving Switzerland for New Zealand...a wise move?

Visas, Permits, Passports and Naturalization
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Dear all,

it is my first post here at English Forum. I have been living in Switzerland for a couple of years now, discovered EF last year but have been procrastinating in registering a new account until now. Yes, until now, the new year of 2014 that I am actually on the point of leaving CH. So, sorry that my first post is not in the introduction section but the leaving Switzerland.

I have had my 'honeymoon' years here where I became the biggest fans of CH when I just arrived. I learnt the language and the rules. Yet slowly I came to realise that as nice as CH for me is (fresh air, good money), I know I am just too young (early 30s) to limit myself careerwise in CH.

I started to look around. I must say that it is hard to look for something elsewhere that can beat Switzerland for the working conditions and monetary compensations for someone with not yet so much working experience (5 years). Anyway I actually got an offer from a company in New Zealand that is willing to sponsor me a working visa to move to New Zealand permanently.

So New Zealand?

I keep asking myself whether it is what I want to move to a country 12 hours time zone away and start anew. I have heard so many wonderful things about the country but yet there are hesitations as well. The biggest one is probably the fact that I am non-EU permitwise in Switzerland that if I leave, I might not be able to come back to CH or Europe again easily. The salary offered is also significantly lower than what I am enjoying in CH. I know one should not just look at money...but but....

I have searched here in EF...there are many discussions about Australia (which would be my first preference) but discussions for NZ are more about travelling there for vacation....I sincerely hope that someone here can share their experience of working in New Zealand and of course the life there compared to CH (North Island to be specific) (I know only generally about the typical descriptions - laid-back culture, many outdoor activities etc.).

Many thanks.

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Well, I have never been to both countries (Australia and New Zealand). From what I heard the weather in New Zealand is a bit more moderate and could be quite similar to CH, but I just found it a bit far from anywhere....and you are right, CH is just right in the centre of Europe...you just need to ask yourselves would you be happy to leave Europe altogether? (if you really want to be out of CH but not necessarily Europe) Are other European countries not an option?

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When I emigrated NZ was on my mind ,some time I wish I went there instead to Canada

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Due to the freezing weather now?

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Working in NZ is very different to working here.

Here people are very good at One Thing. There, you have to know a little bit of everything.

If you are into the outdoors life, and sport, you'll do well. If you are in Wellington, take up wind surfing -in Taranaki, take up surfing- In Auckland, sailing. It was once said that every third Aucklander has a boat.

Holidays - here you get 5 or so weeks, there you get three.. and I remember one old boss, who was very proud of not having taken any holidays in 3 years.

It is obviously less affluent than here - you can tell by the salary that you have been offered. But people work longer hours. And there is always drinks on a Friday with the office crew.

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Do you like sheep?

I can't speak for what it is like to live in New Zealand, but the country is beautiful.

It will be quiet, but Kiwi's tend to be well travelled people, genuine and open, so you'll find that you'll fit in quickly.

As long as you know your lifestyle will be a change of pace (a change doooown) you will buy yourself more time to enjoy what is around you and what New Zealand has to offer..... sheep.... ahh, the scenery.

Rugby Union is a religion there and Richie McCaw is currently the Pope, so remember to take this seriously.

One of the coolest facts about New Zealand is that you are never more than 140km from the coastline at any given point in time.

The beaches in the North Island rival any Australian beaches in terms of appearance and seclusion (but not water temperature).

Queenstown in the South Island offers you the opportunity to ski, but it's No Switzerland that's for sure..... the town though is pretty epic fun all year round.

North East on the South Island is a quiet spot called Blenheim. It's a fantastic wine region and a great spot to get away.

The population is only around 4 Million so don't expect any 'big city' feeling anywhere... although Auckland gives it a decent shot.

Oh, and something like 25% of Kiwi's live outside of New Zealand at any given point in time just to make matters worse.

(most of which it seems are in Australia).

Keep in mind that these points are all posted by an Australian.

I would love to point out that they have an unusual pronounciation of their vowels, but I'm first to conceed that have much clearer pronounciation of constantants and don't abbreviate every second word like we do.

If this all sounds appealing to you, then you'll enjoy NZ cuzzy bro

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Ive been to NZ. Stayed for 3 months and even worked on a fruit farm in the North. Beautiful country like the whole of Europe rolled into one place.

But to be honest with you I think once the honeymoon period has worn off you'll feel isolated and with only Wellington and Auckland as major cities for employment you are very limited in your career choices.

Just my opinion.

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Do you mean working hours in NZ longer or here? For me at least in CH I have a fixed working hours and anything over is considered over time, while the offer in NZ does not count possible over hours ...

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I lived with a New Zealand nurse here for 8 years. Twice she went back to make a "new" life there, and twice she returned here. She now lives happily in Bern.

Her problems were getting a high enough salary to live on, and the poor choice of items in the shops: often there was for instance, only a choice of black shoes or brown shoes. If you look at the map, it really is at the end of the civilized world.

I really think you should visit NZ before deciding on emigrating there. If you come from a remote part of Europe it might be attractive, but with 4 million people spread out over a large country, it can get to be a lonely place.

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Yes, the apparent low salary is my concern. Although one should not work for money but having a high purchasing power is a privilege we have here that is hard to let go....And you are right about NZ being isolated....it is like hours' flight to the nearest Australia!

Any Kiwi fans here? I need to read more positive things about NZ!

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The Kiwis here probably don't like the low pay in NZ.

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NZ is certainly a beautiful, varied and exciting country - I lived there for 15 years (Dunedin and Auckland).

However...this is quite a big move and I'd say you really need to think long and hard about what your priorities and objectives are...is it career advancement and getting rich, is it a new and exciting experience in a land far far away, is it sport and outdoors or is it raising a family. Do you like a small town, big town, farm lifestyle...?

I can tell you that if money and a structured career climb is for you top, then you are better off here. I found the working environment quite

relaxed and depending on the company and industry you can learn a lot and move sideways and upwards (but this is like anywhere!). My feeling was that despite the fact that NZers travel and work overseas (during the 'great OE'), the limited market potential (ie NZ and OZ) limits also the types of projects you could work on (again depends on your industry). On the other hand, NZ has a great entrepreneurial and innovation culture if that's your thing. As it is part of the new world and somewhat devoid of the traditions that weigh down other nations, NZ is strong on innovation in business and also food . You can eat wonderful and creative food in many places...this i miss here!

Auckland, as the biggest city, has become quite expensive over the last 5 years in property and living expenses. As far as I can tell (having been away for 7 years now) the salaries have gone up but you won't be able to expect a 1:1 parity with CH and i would say it would be harder to save in NZ than it is here. As far as Australia goes, I've heard that Sydney is even more expensive than ZH in salary:living ratio!

You would also need a car and be prepared to drive everywhere (unlike in ZH).

You can certainly have a great lifestyle with your own house, garden, by the beach...cool little cafes and bars, great nature for hiking, water sports etc. Easy and safe life. And there are more shoes than just brown and black ...but as someone said, there is a honeymoon period for this too. My personal gripe is that it's just so damn far away...geographically, culturally and you do feel the isolation. I have friends that visited and were a bit 'worried' they might like it so much that they'd want to stay...but they said it was actually ok to come back to Europe!

If for you it's imporant to feel history, a legacy of culture, film, music, art, architecture, a connection to something 'bigger' etc...then NZ can feel a little sterile.

Really just depends on who you are as a person and what your expectations and goals are.

I hope this mini-novel helps a bit - happy to answer more questions if you have some!

cheers

Assia

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Our best clients (we miss you guys) stayed few years in CH and moved first to Oz and then to Kiwi. That's obviously choice of life. Depends on what kind of culture you like, must ask yourself this question. Salary wise it is all relative and cost of living adjusts it leaving you more less at similar situation in both countries. For folks loving outdoor, sports especially rugby and cricket NZ and Australia are places to go. If you are quiet introvert type who enjoys cold Central European weather, Switzerland is place to be. I like it here but cannot cope with local climate. The South African weather which is one of the world's best IMO, Swiss money cannot buy.

Look at this from pros and cons point of view:

NZ & Australia

Advantages:

Great lifestyle and space.

Fantastic weather and outdoor.

Friendly people and social life.

No communication problem.

Rugby first or second nation (after RSA)

Crickets, braais, swimming pools and partying

Disadvantages:

Lower salaries.

Faraway from EU.

Down-under.

Less winter and snow sports.

Longer working hours.

No specializing - jacks of all trades.

Limited global career opportunities.

Switzerland:

Advantages:

Great salaries - probably worlds top.

Centre of Europe - opportunities for traveling.

Winter, alpine landscape and snow sports.

Lakes, fresh air and clean.

Stable economy and safe.

Lots of expats.

Disadvantages:

Language barrier.

Limited social life.

You will always be expat.

One track minded thinking.

Cost of living high but proportional to income.

I would say go for NZ and Australia is close by

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Previously I would have not considered NZ as their economy hasn't been great and not so many jobs. However lately I keep hearing the economy there is really picking up and the NZ dollar may even overtake the AUD later this year http://www.news.com.au/finance/busin...-1226799521377

If the economy were good, I would easily pick NZ over Switzerland if isolation were not a concern. NZ is actually similar to Switzerland in terms of scenery but you also have the ocean and some great beaches. In addition there is no language barrier and Kiwis are far more friendly than the Swiss. You will make friends far more easily in NZ.

In fact I may actually look into moving there myself after hearing good news about their economy picking up lately. Auckland is also one of the worlds most liveable cities, up there with Melbourne.

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No choices for shoes? For heavens sake, when was that? During the post WW2 depression ???

Rugby? I have no idea of the names of anyone in the National team. Same goes for the cricket team. I am too busy with other sports to care, as are most of my friends and aquaintances. If you do a google for "Meetup" groups in NZ, you will get an idea of the huge range of activities and interests on offer. Or google your own particular interests to see what is available.

If you are into skiing, expect a long drive to the mountains if you are going to be in AUckland or Wellington; much closer if in ChCh.

OP, where in NZ are you being offered a job? Let me know and I will try to give you some objective info ( having recently moved back there "permanently" from Switzerland. )

THe 12 hour time difference is a non-issue - if anything there is a slight advantage to being a few hours ahead of Europe. BUt it can take 24 hours to actually fly to Europe.

Generally, housing is most expensive in (parts of) AUckland, followed by (parts of) Christchurch.

Medical care is far cheaper here, with no real need to belong to a private scheme. is generally paid for thosw who are working on an hourly rate.

Public tranport is nowhere near as good as in Switzerland. After not having a car for years in Switzerland, I felt the need to buy one my first week here.

If you are on an annual salary, you may or may not be expected to do any over-time, which may or may not give extra pay - or time off ins leiu. The norm is still seen as being a 40 hour week - 37.5 for public servants. Ask your prospective employer to find out the expectation of that company.

Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions that you think I might be able to help with.

I am about to leave for the beach - camping in sight of the ocean in a little village that originally flew the French flag, dinner at an outdoor cafe, listening to the waves swishing in the bay, dragonboating in the harbour in the morning.......

You wrote that you have been offered a "permanent" job. As you are in your 30's, you are too young to be considering anything as permanent. So ask youself whether a move to NZ will suit you for now. Will it be an interesting place to live for 2-5 years? (What are you main interests?) Will the work in NZ be useful later later, if you seek work elsewhere in your chosen career ( and your current career does NOT have to be forever.)

If you spend some time here, and then decide you do want it be forever, then fine.

Sieze the day!

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The last time she went back was about 10 years ago. Maybe the shops are better now?

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Actually owning a car and driving it seems like more fun than using public transport in crowded city.

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Just as Switzerland has the concept of the shared washing machine, New Zealand has shared shoes. In every apartment building there is a single pair of shoes and a calendar where people can see when it is their turn to wear the shoes.

The shoes take no account of different sized feet thus it is commonplace to see New Zealanders limping around town when it is their allotted shoe day.

At the end of your shoe day, it is essential to leave the shoes polished and free of foot odour for the next person. One of the biggest sources of neighbourly disputes is the communal shoes.

There have been many attempts to change the rules and make shoes more widely available but the Kiwi Shoe Polish company is an extremely powerful lobby and such attempts generally flounder.

Cheers,

Nick

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Our shoes do not smell of flounder.

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She exaggerates. In my life time, there has always been a good selection from around the world. I am older than 10.