Legal issues with international move with kids

Family, Education, Health and Pets
1
Hi everyone, I am using one of my kids accounts to reach out .

I need some advise if anyone has anything to offer.

I moved to CH with our 2 kids from Australia in 2020 to join my Swiss husband who then left me for a young lady from his office 6 months ago. In the process we wrote 3 papers that were all signed and stamped in front of the local Gemeinde Rep. One that gives me the right to travel internationally with our kids, another that gives the kids and I the right to return to Australia without him to live (with power of attorney), and also a Separation Agreement that confirms our right to live in Australia, and various financial agreements etc... Our departure date is only verbally agreed. I wanted to leave on Feb 2022 but we are still here due to pressure, but I agreed to stay until this August instead. Everything is under way for the kids and myself to leave this August. However recently he stated I no longer have his permission to leave anymore and he will exercise his right to stop us, he primarily states we can't leave due to his lack of security with our financial agreement, and that he is now not happy about the kids leaving (naturally understandable).

He enjoys a high-up position in the police and states he has ways to stop us leaving until he gets what he wants, even though in principal I didn't disagree with his new requests. Does anyone know if this is true? I tried to find information on Passport watchlist rules in CH, and I think this is called a Port Alert in the UK, does anyone know if he can he put a European wide block on my kids travelling?, would it include the UK? I am kinda freaking out as we cancelled my apartment contract which was in his name, sold most of our furniture which he also price negotiated, my eldest is already back in Australia (not his), and can't return to CH because of Visa requirements, and now he says he can block us leaving!

The wisdom of the forum is badly needed I haven't found much consistency within the lawyers here which doesn't help. Ultimately he doesn't want us to leave until we are divorced (this is his security apparently). Could the Courts over-rule our agreements and stop the kids and I moving back home? My family is encouraging me to leave CH ASAP but I am quite terrified of the consequences, and what makes me incredibly sad is we were only meant to be here a few years. Any thorts or suggestions on how to handle my dilemma would be greatly appreciated. THX in advance

2
Use paragraphs etc.... I could not be bothered to try and read this.

3
I am really sorry for the trouble you're going through, keep up, it seems like it's the end of the road.

Unfortunately, I can't help here with specific advice and although you said that lawyers are not very helpful, in this particular instance I think it's your best chance. It probably is quite important exactly how these 3 agreements are written and this can be verified only by a professional.

Stay strong, looks like you'll be home soon

4
Just move along that and don't be unkind Iin a situation where clearly a lot of grief and stress are involved.

OP I am so sorry you are going through this. I have no advice unfortunately but I hope someone comes along soon who can help

5
I'm sorry that you're going through this, as it must feel like your whole life is currently being held to ransom ... It sounds like a huge power-trip on your soon-to-be-ex's part - flexing that he can mess you around as much as he wants.

Very abusive! I see why you've chosen to get as far away from him as possible.

How old are the kids? This can have an impact on the legal side. I gather they are a long way from being adults, but that's not clear from your post.

As others have said, get some professional legal advice on those documents you have but, if they are written the right way, then:

This is just my gut feeling, but the behaviour you described makes it seem like your children's father is getting ready to make life far more difficult for you than he already has. If it's legally possible, get out now. He can't make life as hard for you if you're in Australia and got there legally with the kids.

Ask a good friend to handle stuff like shipping any things you can't carry on the plane to Australia once you're safely away.

Good luck!

6
What a horrible position to be in.

I can’t help unfortunately but I would second the advice to go see a lawyer and have them look over all the documents and advise you on the legality of them.

7
I am sorry you are going through this.

I agree with other posters - even though the lawyers you have so far contacted have not been responsive, you really do need solid legal advice before taking any further steps.

Yes, from what you have written it does sound like your husband may be gearing up to make things difficult. And that is all the more reason to ensure that every single thing you do from now on is on solid legal footing.

I found this on the Fribourg website - Have you contacted this group, the Büro für die Gleichstellung von Frau und Mann und für Familienfragen:

https://www.fr.ch/de/alltag/bei-schw...nung-scheidung

Or, perhaps this group,Office Familial Fribourg:

https://www.officefamilial.ch/de/ang...ung/unser-team

From what you have said there has not been abuse so you don't really fall under their mandate, nonetheless perhaps getting in touch with this group to ask if they can point you to a more proactive lawyer might be helpful. Solidarité Femmes Fribourg:

https://www.sf-lavi.ch/ohg-beratungs...igung/?lang=de

ETA:

Also, have you looked through the binational.ch website? There is lots of information there for binational couples, including information on divorce. It looks like their closest advice center to you is in Bern, here:

http://binational.ch/en/?Counseling_offices___Bern

Perhaps they can better advise you on the international issues, or point you to further resources.

Sometimes these types of organizations can help you navigate the legal system better than you could on your own - or point you to resources you might not have discovered on your own.

But whatever you do - please do not - repeat do not - take the children out of Switzerland without their father's express permission until you have very thoroughly clarified the legal situation. Doing so could open a whole world of difficulties. Not only for you, but most importantly for the children. Only consider tleaving Switzerland with the children once you have legal permission to do so.

I hope this can be resolved with a minimum of pain for all involved, and wish you all the best.

8
Happy now?

9
Wishing you success and sanity during this really stressful time.

10
Meloncollie has given you the links to begin - certainly you need to reach out and sort this out legally as fast as possible. Best of luck - get it sorted as fast as possible.

Do you have a 50/50 custody and access arrangement for the children ?

Is he financially supporting you in an appropriate way ?

Yes, he is going to try to control you and the kids in order to get the divorce settled - this is a classic move - and probably one that the lawyers on his side will also recommend - and remember, he can have more kids with his' second family' so you need to make sure you secure your own situation in a strong way.

As for apartment, etc, if he forces you to stay then he needs to provide for you and the kids financially - appropriate housing etc. I would put a value on that (ie. write out a new separation agreement, proposed divorce settlement) and then show him that having you return to Australia will be financially a better option for him.

Lawyers will need to be paid - that's also very expensive. And that costs both of you as well. As for 'non responsive' lawyers - they also may be reluctant to take on your case if there is minimal wealth and it looks like it's going to be very messy. Do you or your family have significant money (100K?) to fight this out ?

11
Jim, you really are up yourself with comments like that.

12
No surprise, his/her posts shows that s/he usually shoots from the mouth before engaging whatever brain...

13
Dear OP

Sorry to hear about your problems.

I wonder if the Australian Embassy may help navigate the Govt corridors.

If someone threatens to use their influence and authority in the wrong manner, you can leverage the Australian Embassy's help in making sure you get treated fairly and this threat is negated. There are lawyers who specialise in Divorce matters. I remember reading about them on this forum itself a few months back. Worth doing a search and then contacting them.

I wish you all the very best going through what is clearly a very stressful time.

14
https://www.englishforum.ch/family-m...ml#post3370732

15
I just heard of someone who is likely to lose their licence to practice law because they threatened an employee and tried to use their status as a lawyer (as in, don't bother trying to sue me, I'll win because I'm a lawyer and you are just a little xyz). Consequence - little xyz got a highly qualified free community lawyer who has just won the case.

I would hope that the same happens for someone who tries to use their status as a 'police officer' to threaten anyone.

I would recommend that you ensure that you are keeping full records of any conversations, emails, text messages or letters. and send a copy of those to a trusted third person who your ex-husband does not have access to. Keep a diary of any 'verbal' agreements too - the order in which things happened and what was said may be essential in the future to fight out your case.

16

I would say that as you have legal documents declaring exactly what you can and cannot do, he has no legal power to change that. That doesn’t mean he won’t try and make things difficult, but as far as my non-legal mind can see it unless/until you both make new agreements the current ones stand.

Tell him if he does try and stop you using his position in the police, you’ll report him to his superiors and also take him to court over his breaking of your legal agreements.

17
So you never went to a lawyer to draw up these papers? Are they notarized? Is there a custody agreement? Are you planning to divorce?

As difficult as the situation must be for you, I would stay until you are certain you and your kids can leave without being on the wrong side of the law.

18
I would like to thank everybody for all the great replies and advice as a whole. I feel very humbled.

Firstly I have decided to try and appeal to him as one human to another, and to see if I can de-escalate the situation.

Secondly I am in the process of contacting lawyers and organisations that can verify the validity of our agreements, and hopefully explain clearly if there are any channels he could exploit to revoke these agreements, whether he should or not!

Although a lawyer told me our agreements are sound in principal, his latest threats have left me with severe doubt.

I can't imagine I am the first person from overseas that has encountered this type of problem, and so I will post what eventuates, who was helpful, and what steps were necessary.

My hope is despite this being a horribly stressful situation, my experiences will be able to help some else in the future.

19
Thanks for the questions they are very valid:

Our Agreement included visitation rights and that the kids would mostly live with myself in Australia.

We signed the papers in front of a local Gemeinde official that witnessed our signatures, he also stamped and dated and signed the papers himself, the official then recorded our ID documents and recorded the event. I only recently learnt this is not the same as the papers being Notarised, and may end up being the crux of the matter.

We also recorded on our Agreement that we weren't considering a divorce yet, so in effect he is also trying to break this part of the agreement too.

20
Thank you for this reply:

I would not want him to lose his job, but it would be very sad if he is indeed intending to exploit his position in the police in an unfair way. If we do end up in court this will not work out well for him.

Luckily though I have not wanted to speak with him directly for the past 6 months so all of our communication, apart from once, is recorded as either an email or a text. Probably going to end up being my gold, if we can't reasonably work things out.