Based on : Cultural diversity, outdoor lifestyle, street cafe culture, healthy eating, walkability (hate cars), cinemas, waterside, weather,
cleanliness, personal safety... etc
We are considering living in Bern, I am very interested to know how does it compare to Zurich for quality of life... We work from home so jobs availability not a factor : -
If weather is a factor, then consider the french-speaking part of Switzerland (known as Romandie). The lakeshore of Lake Geneva (known as Lac Léman) seems particularly good weather-wise compared to German-speaking Switzerland: less cloudy days and a couple of degrees warmer. I think it also meets your other criteria: All types of outdoor activities are easily accessible (the mountains are at least if not more accessible than they are from Zurich or Bern), it is on the water, there are lots of street-side cafes (in the warmer months). On the other factors that you list, Romandie is probably comparable to Bern and Zurich.
Plus, Romandie has other advantages that you may not have thought of like the fact that the locals speak proper French (the French that you can learn from textbooks and language courses), whereas in the German-speaking part they speak Swiss-German, or a local dialect thereof, for which there are no textbooks or courses (you can only learn high-German from those sources, which is basically a different language, but with which you may be able to survive). Plus, from most places on the eastern half of the lake you get an awesome view across to the mountains on the south shore of the lake (something that neither Bern nor Zurich really has).
The major towns along the lake are:
Geneva: large and very international (not particularly Swiss), it may be too big to satisfy your walkability criterion.
Lausanne: a reasonably sized city that is the heart of Romandie.
Montreux: a medium-sized town that is known for being very posh, it's main advantage is being literally at the base of the mountains.
The next largest towns (Vevey, Nyon, Rolle, are all nice but are probably a bit small for your tastes).
Thanks for this, very helpful.
I'm going to some research on this area.
I've lived in Bern, Zurich & Neuchatel. Bern was not so great a to live, very quiet for night life especially in winter, we ended up doing most of our socialising at friends houses. It's pretty to look at and great for a visit but I would never live there again. Zurich has everything that you are looking for and I think is a great place to live. I also really liked living in Neuchatel but along with the rest of lower lying Switzerlnd has a fog problem in winter. I've also worked in Lausanne, Geneva & Basel so know them too. I'd say for your wish list Zurich is the best match.
Thanks - Both Neuchapel and Lausanne now sounding good. Interested to here your thoughts on Lausanne?
We will probably escape the winter by coming to Miami so, not sure about the fog issue, but the weather in Lausanne sounds perfect for us. We like sun without the heat. We are in Zurich for the first time next week exploring so that will give us a better idea, but we don't want to miss out on exploring some other cities/towns in Switzerland before we take the plunge!
Regarding the weather in Lausanne, I just found this page that says that Lausanne averages 1,907 hours of sunlight per year, which is much higher than the other places it gives info for (which are 1,400 - 1,600), but these other places are also in canton Vaud. I was unable to find similar stat's for other places in Switzerland, but I did find this report of a study conducted throughout Switzerland on seasonal affective disorder. They split their data based on the annual hours of sunshine and used the categories of > 1,780 hours as the high category and < 1,480 hours as the low category (see page 3 of the linked pdf). I hope this helps.
Thats not totally true. There are text books and courses. I have one and have taken the course to go with it. It is not esay to learn, but there are courses.
Also, Bern has a fantastic view of the mountains (not across a lake though).
I have heard the hill between lake Murten and lake Neuchatel is nice, you can see both lakes and the mountains in both directions.
I think in the end you need to look around and choose for yourself, as you will be living there
Also everyone here maybe just a little bias
Thanks for the clarifications, James.
I got interested in the annual hours of sunshine stat, and did some more research. According to this site , Geneva gets 1,500 hours per year (about 20% less than Lausanne). I still haven't found the comparable stat for Zurich, but I did find some tables on the BBC weather site that suggests that Geneva gets a lot more sun than Zurich .
I think Lugano must have more sun. Its always plus 1-2 degress warm and sunnier on the south side of the mountains.
But I think the sunniest places are in Engadin or Wallis (just a little out of the way). St Moritz for example: "The famous sun of St. Moritz shines an average of 322 days a year. " http://www.stmoritz.ch/village-002-02-en.htm .
Thats what 1800 meters and a wall of mountains brings.
I have lived in both Neuchatel and Bern. Neuchatel is small and not good for night life, definitely a no compared to say Zurich. I like Bern, but they call it a big village (Neuchatel being a village in this comparison), and since it only has 135.000 inhabitants I think, it makes sense. But it does have many cafes and terraces, so I like it. But if you like living in real, lively cities like London and Amsterdam, then I would definitely go for Zurich.
Bern gets my vote too.
The city is a great size, in that you can walk everywhere. The shops with the covered walking areas are also great in both winter and summer. The market is in the center of the city 3 times per week for fresh fruit & veg.
Bern doesn't have a lake like Zürich, but the river Aare is still nice and good fun to swim in in Summer. When on a sunny warm day everyone is down in the free Marzili baths ( http://www.aaremarzili.info/)) .
I live in the old city or Bern. Something just not possible to afford in Zürich.
My wife lived in Zürich (Schmiede Wiedikon) for a while a I stayed their with her often. In my opinnion that was not a nice place to live. Although I like many parts of the city, the nicest parts are just way WAY to expensive to live in. If I was going to move there, I think I would live somewhere like Winterthur, because it has a nice city center with everything you need and is only 30mins to Zürich.
However, that being said if you don't need to work in Zürich, then Bern is only 55mins by train (twice per hour). Get a GA and you can go everywhere in Switzerland for free.
That was not my experience of living in Neuch. We had a brilliant nightlife there, I think I only stayed in for 2 Friday nights in the 18 months I lived in the town. I think that had a lot to do with the great bunch of friends that we had there but there are/was plenty of places to go out to.
My partner and I are on the verge of submitting paperwork so that we can enter the country legally and open our own business. Since we both work in software and will be working on remote projects most of the time, location is not an issue as far as work is concerned.
So now we are stuck with the question of where to move, and for what reasons. We have spent over two years in a small town in southwestern France, and while it is very quaint and fairly affordable in comparison to CH, we have missed more interactions with English speakers and haven't gained a sense of home here. It has also been next to impossible to deal with the French administrative tangle of trying to make my partner, who is a US citizen with papers for Germany, legal here. The rules are arcane, and have left us with the distinct feeling, that we are not welcome here.
We have visited both Bern and Zurich, but would like to get some opinions on what expat life is like in these two places. How do the costs compare? How sleepy or exciting are these two places? Are there differences in mentality?
Any help or response is greatly appreciated.
Hi, I would put in a recommendation for Berne (I live here).
Mainly because it is smaller, I believe friendlier, though less
international. Berne has 20% who can speak English, about 2000
expats of English mother tongue, an embassy circle. Zurich
has I guess 40%, 10,000, and a lot of finance and service
companies.
Berne has lots of nice small towns five minutes from the city,
every facility easily reachable. Zurich has an airport and more
competitive industry. You can live in a Berne town and speak
French, which may be easier than learning Swiss German.
There are lots of mailing lists on yahoo for Zurich residents,
lots of expat associations. In Berne there is swisscc, and
about 6 expat clubs.
Mail me to find what is happening in Berne, whenever you would like to come here - [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) - or see http://berne.carrick.ch or http://www.living-in-berne.ch/
Graham
I've lived in both places and much prefer Zurich. Bern is a beautiful city and if you like the quiet life then it could be for you but personally I found it a little boring as did my husband. Zurich has more options for nightlife, restaurants etc and everything is open later. A lot will depend upon what you are looking for & your lifestyle.
You might have noticed a link at the bottom of this thread to another thread entitled:
Living in Bern vs Zurich? Pros and Cons please
You'll probably find it helpful.
HeatherM
Cheers Heather, I missed that! Threads have now been merged.
I wasn't aware of the bilingual nature of Bern - so French and German are actually used actively by the population? Since we have been in southern France for over two years now, it migth make the transition interesting. I am a native speaker of high German and speak descent French, so for me it would be fun. My partner is a bit more challenged since he is a native English speaker and feels as though he couldn't manage both the German and the French at the same time.
How quiet is quiet? I guess the best way to determine that might be a longer visit, which we are currently planning for Berne, our first choice, with a chance to move on to visit Zurich as we feel like it.
A question for those living in Bern: How much do you travel to Zurich? Are visits for an afternoon or evening feasible? I have one medical condition that often requires my seeing specialists. Currently I go to the University of Bordeaux for that, although I have been as far as Paris. I assume the University Clinics in Berne and Zurich would be comparable?
yes - but you were of the "Neuchenders" era
I have lived in both Zurich & Bern & initially opted for Bern due to work reasons. Now I wouldn't change it, as I enjoy a much more laid back atmosphere & pace of life.
That being said, there is a pretty active nightlife in Bern, however, you do have to go looking for it, as much of it is underground.