i enjoy cycling (on relatively flat terrain), so if there is anyone else interested in doing weekend rides along the lake, please let me know.
hello. i will be moving to zurich area at end of the month. i am considering living either in pfaffikon, sz or lachen. can anyone share pro's and con's of each especially for someone who doesn't speak any german. my initial preference is for lachen as it's a bigger town and seems to have more amenities and services, but pfaffikon is a bit closer to my commute into north of zurich. if anyone lives in lachen, any recommendation for dry cleaners, bakery, etc would be appreciated.
Have you ruled out the Höfe towns of Wollerau, (including Wilen), Schindellegi, and Feusisberg?
These have the easy commute and very low taxes that Pfaffikon offers, but are more... charming... than Pfäffikon, have a more community-oriented atmosphere, and don't have the awful drive-through traffic that Pfäffikon does.
Wollerau is quite upscale and offers the most in the way of amenities, Schindellegi and Feusisberg are more down-to earth - but rapidly becoming more suburban than farming-oriented villages.
In Höfe, I'd chose any of those over Pfäffikon.
(Wollerau, Pfaffikon, Lachen - any town on the lake - offer many possibilities for flat-ish cycling. Schindellegi and Feusisberg are on the hill above the lake, so cycling is a bit of a challenge if you are used to flat. But my husband soon learned to love the hills, and now takes the Etzel (and beyond) in stride.)
But if your choice is between Pfäffikon and Lachen, I'd go for Lachen. Taxes will be some 12-20% higher, depending on your income and family status, but the town has more to offer as you have guessed. The commute is indeed longer, but only by about 15-20 minutes.
Good luck!
hi. thanks for your comments. i did look at wollerau, but train connections weren't that great to opfikon for my daily commute to work. i'm used to big cities, having lived in manhattan and in central london most of my life, so the others are probably a bit too rural for me. Also, i won't have a car and will be living there mainly by myself as my husband will be abroad.
thanks for the biking trip- hopefully after enough time/practice i can do some more hills.
Hi there... how are you commuting? If by car, then I would choose Wollerau (grew up there myself, very nice). If by public transport I would suggest Pfäffikon, as this town has the best connections to Zurich (from Wollerau you either have to get to Samstagern or Richterswil first). Personally I don't like Lachen very much, I find it very boring and it gives you the feel of living at the end of the world (I would know, I used to live in Siebnen, and thats not far away... )
May I ask, why Pfäffikon or Lachen? Why not Wädenswil? Taxes are a bit higher that in Höfe, but it's a very charming town and even closer to Zurich.
Kimberley- thanks. it is the tax rates that's making me look at schwyz canton. seems Wädenswil taxes are significantly higher. And i don't have a car, so direct or easy trains connections are important to me.
Okay, I can understand that. I live in Zurich City, so for me the tax rates are the same as in Wädenswil. So if you're worried about taxes I would consider Pfäffikon SZ, connections are pretty direct (approx. 20 mins to HB) and you really have everything (Seedamm center, Rapperswil just on the other side of the lake, etc., etc.)
Wait a minute, you're working north of Zurich? Are you really sure you want to live in either of those places?
I know, "low taxes" and all, but have you figured up how much you actually stand to save? vs. how much more rent you can expect to pay? Rents are typically through the roof in these areas due to high demand, so if you're on a modest-to-average income there's not much point: you can live somewhere else, pay tax but save enough on rent to balance it AND be closer to work.
many thanks.
Lachen is a tiny village .
It is pretty, but if you are not fully aware of what you are getting into, may be in for a cultural shock.
Especially, as you don't speak any German, you will face some difficulties fitting into the local rural community, and might feel isolated.
I assume you know what you are getting into...
Just as a reminder, as I have read many times on this forum people who move from London or other big cities to tax friendly tiny villages in CH, and then complain about the place to be a tiny village.
Imo, moving somewhere mainly due to taxes might not be the best motive, and will probably end with posts in the complaints corner. If you want to move there due to a change in lifestyle, then go for it...
If it comes down to Lachen or Pfaeffikon, I would choose Lachen, as it is much prettier, and has a nicer vibe.
If you are working in Opfikon, I would either live in the city or at least north of the Zürichsee in Kanton Zurich. A short(er) commuting time is worth so much more than the few Rappen you save by living in another canton. If you have to travel over 1 hour to work each day and back, you won't even have time to build up a social life.
How about Wollerau - Treverus here has a great flat and is looking for somebody to take it over (low taxes there).
All- thank you for all your helpful comments. i do appreciate that living further away for solely tax reasons, may not be the best answer. However, the tax savings are significant, so i will give these town a try at least for a while...
hope you all have a good weekend.
We live in the Höfe area - my husband's commute is only 30 minutes; it takes his colleagues living in ZH city longer to get across town.
Yes, he drives - but that is largely because of his work schedule. Driving only makes sense, though, if your employer can guarantee you a parking space.
The tax difference depends on one's situation. Run your own info through a few calculators - the difference may be a few thousand - or tens or even hundreds of thousands.
One often finds that rents in the Ausserschwyz region, outside the luxury market, are no longer more expensive than in many high-tax Gemeinde elsewhere, and often less than central addresses in ZH city. It used to be true that rents increased as the tax rate dropped, but with the current housing crisis rents have risen just about everywhere - so the tax difference may become more important for some.
(Ausserschwyz is seeing huge price increases in the purchase price of homes, not so much in rents - as home ownership rather than renting is more commonly sought after in this area.)
MHK34, if you are commuting to Opfikon, have you also looked at the towns along the ZH gold coast? (Zumikon, Zollikon, Kusnacht, Meilen, Mannedorf, Stafa) These (plus Neerach to the north) are the lowest taxes in ZH canton - and an easier commute by train to Opfikon. Take a look at the S7 timetable. We used to live in Männedorf; ca 20 minutes by train to the city.
The tax savings won't match Ausserschwyz - you'll only save about 1/3 of what you would in SZ (depending on your income) - but these towns offer rates that are far better than ZH city. Rents here are high in Zumikon, Zollikon, Küsnacht, Erlenbach, Meilen - the closer-in towns - because of the cachet of the 'gold coast' exclusiveness. (That exclusiveness may be a positive or a negative, depending on your world view. )
Wherever you choose, do be aware that even the bustling metropolis of Zürich city will seem like a sleepy backwater in comparison to Manhattan or London. Were it me I'd go for Ausserschwzy, a truly sleepy backwater - it's so different, so decidedly non-urban, that you won't be tempted to compare your life here with your life back home.
And with all that tax saved, you can hop on a plane for a weekend in London, whenever you need your urban fix.
And my husband says the cycling is better.
Out of curiosity - mhk34 - your profile says that you have US nationality. Doesn't this mean that you have to pay taxes to the US as well, so anything you save in Swiss taxes gets handed over to the US instead?
(I'm not from the US and don't know the system there, just interested as I have heard others talk about this.)
Ooo - good spot, Rachel.
If you are a US citizen then all bets are off, tax-wise.
That little blue passport means we pay as much to Uncle Sam as we do to Helvetia. However, living in low tax SZ does still have it's advantages as we are able to better focus our tax planning. We don't get the huge savings our neighbors do, but we still pay less in total US and CH taxes living here in SZ than we did in Maennedorf.
As a US citizen, before you make any decisions that are tax-driven, see a tax professional for individual advice.
In short - Pfäffikon SZ is in the ZVV area for train tickets and Lachen isn't.
Pfäffikon SZ is a bit of a ghetto in parts and nice in others.
Lachen is a beautiful small town with a lovely harbour. It also has a new shopping centre smack in the middle of it. Many people speak English as the town attracts tourists.
Both have good access to the A3 motorway.
If you want flexibility for your commute, Pfäffikon SZ wins. Train tickets would be cheaper too and offer the chance to be free to travel on either side of the lake.
Lachen is far nicer but will push the price of your monthly commute up - to use trains both sides of the lake to come home via Pfäffikon SZ, a GA works out cheaper (IIRC).
The commute to Opfikon in a car is one hour each way. From Pfäffikon SZ, you could get to Opfikon in 45 minutes but you're relying on one of two trains5 (S7 and S5 IIRC) and a higher-speed connection and maybe another change.
Why are you desiring to live an hour away from your job? The new ghetto areas of Oerlikon might be more up your street.
I have a friend who lives in Altendorf (between Lachen and Pfaffikon) and commutes to Opfikon each day. He catches the train and it is fine.
We live in the same area, and I would say Lachen over Pfaffikon any day. Lachen is close enough to Pfaffikon to go there to shop or whatever, but Lachen is a much nicer town, the badi is great and it doesn't have the terrible traffic that Pfaffikon has (honestly - you just can't move in peak hour, it is terrible).
Lachen also has the marina, which has some great restaurants. It has markets, it has that "old swiss town" feel. whereas Pfaffikon - well, unless you find somewhere with great views, you could be living in any town anywhere.
There are lots of lovely flat rides you can do in the area - up the valley towards the Glarus valley or you can ride to the bottom of Flumserberg for example which is pretty flat (obviously going up to the top isn't, but you can leave your bike at the bottom and go up in the gondola).
Hope that helps.
I know that many expats are fact resistent. I live in Wollerau and we saved in 2010 a larger five digit number in taxes, about 40% of our income tax . Wollerau is 18mins to Sihlcity (Zurich) and Pfäffikon maybe 5 minutes more.
To the OP - just send you a PM with some more info, but in short: Don't just look at the train tables from the main stations of a village - my place for example is connected with very regular buses to Richterswil which makes the commute not longer than Pfäffikon or Lachen.
For me, Lachen would be a bit too far out and rents just go down behind there... but if you pay say 10000 more in rent and can save some 30000 in taxes, it is a good deal in my eyes. Plus - and that's what the city folks love to forget: I for one do not spend me weekends shopping on Bahnhofstrasse - I like skiing in Winter and some outdoor hiking in Summer. I am on the piste when you are still in the traffic jam.
Don't know the area well, but 'lachen' sounds more fun, lol
(lachen = to laugh)
Treverus flat is really nice- you should go and have a look.
Perhaps not so fact resistant as all that. It highly depends what kind of salary you are on: we did the calculations for Pfäffikon SZ and would have saved only about CHF500 a month. Similar apartments in other places (Zürich Oberland, back of Wädenswil, etc.) were easily CHF500 a month less than Pfäffikon. We concluded that the market has already priced that in (for our income bracket anyway) so decided to forget taxes and think about moving somewhere we'd actually like to live .
My commute now is longer than ever but I don't care. To me Ausserschwyz would have been the worst of least best of both worlds, long commute and no mountains to show for it. However, others might prefer a lake view to mountains, or simply be on high enough income that it makes tax sense for them despite the high rent.