Local schools vs English and reintegration to home

Family, Education, Health and Pets
1
I have read threads regarding the debate over starting kids in a bilingual school then transitioning to local, or just starting directly in local school. This is a decision we still have not made regarding our 7 year old. We go back and forth on this. We are from the U.S. and will be staying in Switzerland 2-5 years, probably closer to 3 years. Is it worth it to immerse him in the Swiss system, then in just a few years try to reintegrate him to the U.S. system? How do the academics compare since the Swiss system starts a year later (I know Swiss schools have a great reputation, but how does the curriculum line up)? Will he cover the same material in second grade at Swiss school that he would have covered back home, or at least be caught up by 4 grade)? I love the idea of him learning German and integrating into the Swiss culture and the neighborhood where we will live, but don't want to put him at a disadvantage when we return to the U.S. He would have missed out on the acquisition of a lot of English vocabulary and grammar that his peers back home learned while he was gone.

For our 4 year old twins I am less concerned. They can go to a local Spielgruppe then local kindergarten, then return to U.S. Only problem is kindergarten in Switzerland is not academic as it is in U.S., right? So they may not be ready for U.S. first grade (know how to read and write) when we return? My husband's company is not helping out with tuition, and with 4 kids (we also have a 2 year old), that is a problem....

I would appreciate any insights or tales of your experiences with this!

2
Sorry, I don't have children so can't give you a parent's perspective on this - I can however give perspective from view of someone who moved to a foreign (non-English speaking) environment at that age:

If you are not planning to STAY in Switzerland, it is easier for the kids to go to International schools but to join activities for children in your neighborhood. The International systems are set up with curriculum that transfers more easily from country to country, usually probably with the thought you'd be moving to another area where going to int'l school will be more or less necessary, so continuing on there. Their curriculum usually fits relatively smoothly between US / UK type school systems from what I understand, so going "back home" will be less of an issue too.

However, easier isn't necessarily better .

Better depends on how versatile you and your family are, how fluid your ideas are about "formal" education vs learning things and life experience. Even going from US to Japan (to DOD school) and back to US, I and my siblings, as well as our parents, had to readjust and rethink grade progression. Not every school even within the US has the same criteria when you get to later grades, so dropping (or only loosely holding) expectation of "must finish school in X years" may help you put your head around easier vs better dilemma.

Is it better in your mind to go with opportunity presented for the children to be completely immersed in Swiss environment, or better to be able to move smoothly in and out of schools for the sake of school? To me, either has advantages and disadvantages, but only you can answer that for your family.

For me, for my experience, going from California to Oregon for just a semester, my teacher (2nd grade, in Oregon) recommended I be held back a year, partly because they were leaps ahead of where I was in Cali. Then we moved to Japan and back into a DoD school - and I was bored doing 2nd grade over again.

The next move with impact for our family was Texas, where my sis didn't fit in so well (Cali to Tx is quite a cultural adjustment) and she was "sick" a lot from school. She had enough absences that they recommended she stay back as well.

Next was to Hawaii, and back into a heavily DoD influenced school again with a lot of other kids "just like us" (military and otherwise parental-job transience) and sis did much better and my adaptable younger brother and I were in our element too.

Final move with school impact potential for me was a mid-year move from Hawaii to the Chicago area - and the curriculum was so different compared to my school in Hawaii, I'd have had to repeat my senior year ( ) in order to graduate from the Illinois system. I stayed with some friends in Hawaii and graduated there, while my parents moved on with my younger siblings.

So, even moving within the similar type educational system is no guarantee that easier even will happen the way we imagine.

Maybe taking advantage of "once in a lifetime" opportunity for your kids to go to school with the German-speaking kids from your neighborhood is better , but maybe keeping education as smooth a transition as possible (knowing there will likely still be some bumps!) is better for your family.

3
I think that Swiss schools teach the little ones how to use paragraphs, which could come in handy

4

It's kindergarten, how academic can it be?

5
Peg A - thanks for your thoughts and insights, very helpful!

cheesey - thanks for your wise a?! comment

Roestigraben, I think you may not be familiar with the U.S. system - the children need to already know how to read and write when they enter first grade. If they do not, they will have a very hard time. I am not suggesting the Swiss schools are inferior (I believe they are actually better) or that they start academics too late, I am only raising a concern regarding reintegration into a different system when we return home.

6
For most people, there's the clinching statement. You'd need to budget around CHF 20,000 per child p.a. for international/private school here, starting at 4 years old -- so, CHF 60,000 p,a, from the time you arrive, and add another CHF 20,000 after two years for your fourth child. Something over CHF 200,000 for the three years you plan to spend here! Assuming you're a stay-at-home mother (yes, a big assumption, but given four children and a transfer to a foreign country, I'm guessing that's the case), you presumably won't have to pay for pre- or after-school childcare, so schooling would be free within the Swiss system.

If money were no object, and you're fairly sure your stay here will be around three years, I'd suggest international school to make the transition back home as smooth as possible. However, how often do career plans work out? You may love it here and want to stay, or your husband may change jobs in Switzerland. Personally, I'd embrace the local schooling option, but as I said, if you genuinely expect to be expats and return home soon, international school is the way to go.

How's that for a less-than-helpful, equivocal answer? (Sorry.)

7
Strange question. People from Anglo-Saxon countries expect kindergartens to teach their children to read and write, add, subtract and multiply numbers, and study specific themes such as types of animals, interpersonal interactions, etc. Swiss kindergartens teach the last bit but none of the 3Rs.

The Swiss concept is that kindergartens prepare children for school, by giving them the opportunity to interact with other children and to learn how to focus on tasks for a short time, sit on a chair for extended periods, etc. The aim is integration and alignment prior to entering school, with the overriding ethos that "children should be children" and have fun for as long as possible. It's a great attitude, in my opinion, and no-one would say that 16-18-year-olds leaving school in Switzerland are in any way disadvantaged by learning to read and write a couple of years later than children in the UK or USA. Certainly, adult literacy levels here are the same as the rest of the developed world!

8
22 yards, thanks for your input. Yes, it is my understanding that the Swiss system has a bit in common with the Waldorf philosophy of celebrating childhood and teaching children reading/writing a little later when they are developmentally more ready for these skills. I think that is great! I really hope my post did not come off as a criticism of the Swiss system, because it was in no way intended to. I am sure literacy rates in Switzerland are much higher than in the U.S.!

9
Sounds like you are way ahead of the game, and have a good grasp of the different philosophies of educations.

BTW Cheesey....it is the first time I have "groaned"!

10

We seem to have this post twice.

http://www.englishforum.ch/education…tion-home.html

Could a mod delete the other one please?

11
You're welcome. Out of interest, are those costs enough to sway you (assuming, of course, that the quality of Swiss education is sufficient to be considered an alternative -- which I believe it is)?

Not at all! My explanation was directed at the poster questioning the academic merit of kindergarten.

Don't be misled -- the later years of Swiss school can be very tough, especially.for the children channelled very early into "Gymnasium" (university/college-track high school)!

12
As a parent this is the best advice (high lighted) that I have heard in a long time. I struggle with the same dilema as our son (7yo) spent a few weeks in an Australian school over christmas and on an age comparison he was behind the other kids but kids education is more than acedemics. Walking to school for example (2 x per day ) teaches them confidence and responsibility that is not "taught" in other places. As Peg has said there are pluses and minus in every system so the more diversity the better and save the money for later "if" they need targeted assistance.

13
My family is here 2-5 years as well. Our 4 year old starts kindergarten next week and we are sending him to public school without hesitation. My only concern is that he will not be learning English (phonics, etc.). I am going to get a membership with ABCmouse.com to supplement his learning so that when we go back to the US, he won't be behind. It's only $8 per month, so it's not a financial burden.

Once we return to the US, we plan on getting him a French tutor so that he can continue being bilingual.

14
I think this is a very good point. Learning another language is fab but only if you plan on keeping up the practice because kids forget their language skills as easily as they acquire them.

If you plan on staying here longer term and/or keeping up the German practice in the States, go for the local. If not, international might serve your kids' needs better.

BTW: we found starfall.com really great, it's a bit pricier at $35 but i found the material covered there fun and well presented. some of the material is also free. great for early reading etc.

15
How you describe Kindergarten in CH is exactly how it was here in Ontario when I was a kid; that's why the whole mention of academics was kinda funny.

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Actually I disagree- learning another language at a young age has a profound and lasting effect on the way the brain works- but totally agree that it is an excellent idea to keep that language and develop it later too.

People often talk about 'repeating a year', but even if a kid does, say, year 2 twice, once in the US or wherever, and once again elsewhere- that year is not 'repeated' as the curriculum will be quite different. One year here or there makes very little difference in the long run. Repeating a year happens in CH and other countries, because a child has not grapped the basics taught in that year to a sufficient extent to go on with the programme- a very different concept altogether.

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Learning a new language alters brain development

News

Published: 29 Aug 2013

Scientists at The Neuro find important time factor in second-language acquisition

The age at which children learn a second language can have a significant bearing on the structure of their adult brain, according to a new joint study by the Montreal Neurological Institute and Hospital - The Neuro at McGill University and Oxford University. The majority of people in the world learn to speak more than one language during their lifetime. Many do so with great proficiency particularly if the languages are learned simultaneously or from early in development.

The study concludes that the pattern of brain development is similar if you learn one or two language from birth. However, learning a second language later on in childhood after gaining proficiency in the first (native) language does in fact modify the brain’s structure, specifically the brain’s inferior frontal cortex. The left inferior frontal cortex became thicker and the right inferior frontal cortex became thinner. The cortex is a multi-layered mass of neurons that plays a major role in cognitive functions such as thought, language, consciousness and memory.

For full article:

www.mcgill.ca

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22 yards, to answer your question, yes, cost does play a role in our decision. I absolutely believe the Swiss academics are rigorous enough to be a viable alternative, and since we have 4 children, I cannot fathom spending 120,000 CH per year on primary school education at some point (ISZL tuition is around 28,500 CH per year). We should be saving that money for college tuition! So, we considered just sending our son to one year at ISZL, then transferring him to local school second year. Of course, there are downfalls to that option as well.

But, I ask myself, even if cost weren't a factor, would I deny my son the chance to learn another language and the experience of assimilating into another culture? Seems a pity to do so. I just hope he wont be overwhelmed by the challenge. The local school where he will go has no other foreign students. Would be a different situation if we were living in Zurich, I suppose.

Thanks everyone for your input and insights!

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When did they start doing this?

It certainly was not like that in the years I lived there.

Tom

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I wish you good luck with your analysis, my only comment is that if you intend to return to the US in three years you will need to get your eldest additional English lessons as local schools English language classes are inadequate for a native speaker.

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I don't think it is impossible to keep up with enough English to rejoin a US school on your own by making sure the kids read age appropriate English books regularly, to expand their English vocabulary. Bring some workbooks for grammar. Have them keep a journal or write to their friends back home for writing and spelling.

Writing skills like how to structure essays, write summaries, letters, etc., are transferable between the languages.