Lost job, B Permit about to expire, long time Non-EU resident

Visas, Permits, Passports and Naturalization
1
Hi, I was recently made redundant and have summarized my current situation below. Me and my wife are annoyed with the permit uncertainty (seems to ever present in our case) and are quite anxious on what lies ahead, in case I do not land another job very soon.

Any information / experience related to this , such as below points, would be really helpful for us (and also hopefully also others in a similar situation).

(1) permit renewal eligibility (or entitlement? as Unemployment benefit) - are authorities obliged to grant a permit until the end of entitlement of unemployment benefits?

(2) type of permit (B? or L?) typically given? - ...as this would affect how easy/difficult landing a job becomes as a non-EU

Current Status:

- Validity of B permit (open, non-EU) about to expire in 3 months

- Lost my job 3 months ago, actively job searching since then

- Registered with RAV, receiving unemployment benefits timely

- Unemployment benefit cover entitlement is for 400 days, until mid-2025 (although I hope to land a job much sooner, within the next few months)

- have been employed and paid taxes since last ~10 year

Additional info (in case it helps):

- B permit was given for my last job was at a startup (~9 months)

- I have lived in Zurich since 12+ years, came as a student from India

- most years spent with ETH (MSc+PhD+Sr.Researcher) and in a combination of B/L permits over these years

- My wife came ~8 years ago (as a dependent). She has a stable job that she loves, but it is not a permanent contract (hospitality sector, where fixed-term per diem contracts are a norm ). During her time, she completed an MBA from a Fachhochschule

- We speak ~B1 Deutsch and If job/permit situation were smooth, we would have been eligible for a C permit in December 2024

2
I read on reddit that in your case, you are considered to be employed by the RAV. But it was 4-6 months ago and I couldn't find the post. Just ask the canton.

I'm also non-EU open B permit with work (for now?) so if you have any information, please let me know.

3
If you speak B1, why have you not considered applying for 'Early C-permit' which is after 5 years of stay and it seems you lived long enough already.

4
OP, I understand that you are looking for real employment and aiming to get off of the RAV. Good.

If, however, if time marches on such that you find it preparious for either your permit renewal or for RAV running out, if I were you I would take any job at all, even if at a low rate of pay and even if not at all related to your field of expertise, just to get a permanent contract. For your wife, too, it would be better if she could motivate her employer to give her an unlimited contract or else move to an employer who would. Such contracts do exist, even in the hospitality industry.

Bear in mind, too, that the less academic a position, the more likely it is to need German skills, so in the meantime, both push ahead improving your levels.

I don't mean the idea of working below your abilities to sound negative, but as an interim strategy to bridge any gap. In Switzerland, unlike some other countries or cultures, it is not looked on as a shameful thing to have done and would not reflect poorly with regard to potential employers. We know several highly qualified professionals who "took a break" between skilled jobs and worked for a few months or a year or so as waiters, cleaners, child-minders, farm-hand, etc. This covered their basic costs while reducing their dependence on the RAV or Social Services, and also prevented jeopardising their permits. In all cases, once they'd established such a job, and reduced the pressure of potentially falling out of the system or losing their permits, and recovered emotionally from the blow they had suffered in their former job, they found they could breathe freely again, re-orientate, and return to a [better] job in their professional field.

5

Because they need to be employed to be able to apply unless they’re independently wealthy and don’t need to work.

6
We actually did apply in 2020. To our surprise, we were informed that we were not eligible! For C-permit, you need the last 2 years on "open" B-permit. Unlike companies, permanent contracts at universities as full-time early-career researchers are non-existent.

So even though I had 2 years of B-permit as a postdoc, the authorities told us that it does not count - it is time limited by definition as part of education & training. This did not apply to my wife, but since she was a dependent, her application was also not considered.

My research contract afterwards was annual, so they gave us L permits over the next 2 years making us ineligible for C permit unless we had open B permit for at least 2 years.

7
Is this possible as Non—EU? When on RAV, do the non-EU hiring processes no-longer apply?

8
Thanks for your insights and perspective. I am really not worried about RAV running out. We both are trying our best but have not yet had much success over the last 3 months. My wife is also going to talk to her employer regarding the situation. She is also looking for alternatives (permanent position).

Tbh, I have nothing against working in jobs you mentioned, and who knows, I might even like to do something different for few months... Isn't it true that these jobs are usually fixed-term / per diem basis? From a permit perspective (esp. as a non-EU) I don't know if it really helps our situation? ...Last thing I want that my B permit is changed to a short-term L at the time of extension, because of a fixed-term position)

9
why don’t you try working in coop , migros etc they always looking for people.

10
not if they already have permit B

11
It is *ESSENTIAL* that your applications emphasise the fact that you have already lived/worked/studied in Switzerland for 12+ years and you have an open B permit.

If you are eligible for RAV then they can renew your permit for as long as you have insurance coverage. So make sure you follow their rules. Just wait until your renewal form comes from the town hall, then take it to RAV and get them to sign/fill it. Your wife's form I guess is normally signed/stamped by her employer. Nothing changes.

Your B permit is OPEN so you are free to take ANY job. So look for ANY job.

What RAV are not is specialist career advisors. Unless you are super-lucky they will give generic advice (fix your CV, make sure you speak German, look for job ads).... I would suggest that you use some of your money and find a local career advisor in your field. Or talk to some recruitment companies for your sector. Find out what you need to do to make yourself more employable.

And NETWORK - most jobs are not through indeed.com, jobs.com, or similar. Do you have a LinkedIn profile ? Have you connected 150+ people that you know via Linked IN who live/work in Switzerland ? Have you sent a message to everyone you know that you are looking for work, and what sort of work you are prepared to do ?

You CAN take a temporary/short term job whilst on RAV. They will deduct some but not all of your insured salary from the money you earn. They cannot force you to take a job permanently that is well-under your profession, but if you can't easily land a high-paying, secure job, then you may need to prioritise job security and regular salary.

Don't panic, it's tough but it's not the end of the world.

AND final thing - ignore the pressure to pack up and go back to India, unless that is the right choice for you AND your spouse/children. It's unlikely RAV will pressure you on a B permit at this stage. You are entitled to the unemployment insurance, as you have paid in to the system for 10+ years through your taxes. So it's not a gift, it's an insurance, and as long as you follow the rules, you are entitled to get the insurance.

Lastly, you didn't actually tell any of us what your work/expertise is - Make a new 'job search' post on the forum and use this network - and search the forum for any mention of your profession. That may help you find links that list recruiters, companies, or other ideas on how to target your job hunting....

12
i must say this is just crazy being here so long and still having only B permit...people apply for passport already...i even went on trying to read what laws actually changed, because not long ago all years counted towards C, student non-student, now seems just draconian measures towards those who are actually highly educated professionals...at the end of the day what difference is L/B-restricted makes in terms of person living their life here

13
Thanks a ton for your comprehensive perspective, encouragement, and for all the great suggestions! I'm following all RAV rules and making use of a mix of application strategies (some of which you mentioned like using the network, guidance, linkedin, etc.). I also understand that there is always room for improvement so I continue to learn from mistakes and adapt my strategy... (PS: A course on Job application strategy for high-qualified professionals (enrolled by RAV) was very helpful in this regard...)

Lastly, I was in fact thinking of making a job search post a couple of days ago.. so thanks for mentioning it. I'll do it soon but in the meanwhile, here is a short "About me" - PhD Economics and MSc Applied Statistics (ETH Zürich) together with a background in Engineering and IT. 10+ years of hands-on experience in econometrics, data science and analytics, sustainability, policy evaluation, and project management.

14

…highly educated professionals whose education is paid largely by Swiss tax payers …

Btw, the relevant federal law for the 2 years open/normal B-permit requirement before C-permit eligibility can be found in Art. 34 letter 5 of the Federal Act on Foreign Nationals and Integration (FNIA)

Art. 34 letter 5: Temporary periods of stay, in particular for education or training (Art. 27), do not count towards the uninterrupted period of stay in the last five years in accordance with paragraphs 2 letter a and 4. Periods of stay for education or training (Art. 27) are included if the person concerned, after their completion, held a residence permit for an uninterrupted period of two years .

Note that in the last sentence, residence permit refers specifically to a normal B permit and phd/postdoc B-permit does not count as normal.

PS: Lol… I also just noticed that there is a typo in the official online English version of the law on this link shared. The last sentence there says “settlement permit” instead of “residence permit” (The De version is correct though)

15
For the record, its no easier to get citizenship the other direction (anywhere to India) - requires minimum 12 years residency PLUS you have to revoke any other citizenship. OR you can buy permanent residency with 1.5 million dollars.

At least the Swiss allow C permits (permanent residency) without a cash pile.

AND no health check, you are covered for health insurance exactly the same as a Swiss person, from the month you arrive.

Compared to Australia, which certainly has 'draconian' health requirements and rejects parents from visa or permanent residency based on the health status of their children. We could go Australia=> Switzerland with three kids, and get dual citizenship after 12 years. It would be simply not possible the other way, due to the health status of one of our children.

So, hang in there, time on RAV also should not impact your application for C permit in the long-run - it's only impacted if you don't actually have a job, or you use 'social insurance' which is not Unemployment - social insurance will only happen if you run out of time on RAV, and if you run out of money and ask for extra help from the town. Avoid that and you will be totally fine.

16

Below an update on my permit renewal case:

  1. I received the permit renewal form ~3 months prior to my permit expiration date. Apparently, they seem to have slightly updated the form. Specifically, under the section “Without gainful employment” (i.e. “Für Nichterwerbstätige”) in case you’re currently looking for a job, you have to mention since when have you been looking and there is a comment to attach supporting documents such as payslip from the unemployment insurance, proof of financial assets, etc.

  2. I figured this is what we needed to do. But I still asked my RAV Consultant in case he should add something to my renewal form (as was suggested in this thread). He said that he cannot and should not write anything on the form.

I completed the form and attached i) unemployment pay slip, ii) RAV registration document, and iii) financial assets proof and also mentioned the name of my RAV Berater in the remarks section on the renewal form (for my wife’s renewal form, it was the usual for employed person).

The Personenmeldeamt did not ask for any additional document.

  1. We received a letter within a week from Migrationsamt ZH. Here is an interesting part: 90% of the letter cited articles / legal language of the Federal law explaining that they are NOT legally required to extend my permit!

Their main argument: The previous B permit was given for purpose of employment and as I am currently not employed, it falls under Art 62 (link: https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2007/758/en#a62 ) , para 1, point d (fails to fulfil an obligation linked to the decision).

Thankfully though, at the end of the letter they wrote that they CAN extend the permit to give an opportunity to find word until the end of the unemployment insurance, and for now, they are extending my permit for 1 year.

  1. Our renewed open-B permits arrived in ~2.5 weeks
17
Hi Nilkin,

I read whole story and glad to see that you got your permit at least for 1 year more. My question is , you mentioned that you paid unemployment insurance for 10 years. Is govenernment giving you permit extension just for 1 year more? What happens all payments you did in past?

18

Unemployment is only for a maximum number of days.

https://www.ch.ch/en/work/unemployme…oyment-benefit

After that you either have a new job or you leave the country.

19
So extension is just giving one more chance to find a job to keep your B permit. It s clear thanks

20

Yes, if they think you have a good chance of finding a new job then they may extend the permit as they did here.