Made to feel unwelcome by EF at El Lokal

Complaints Corner
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To be honest, I'm not 'really annoyed' - more disappointed, so there might be a better place for this thread - the mods can decide...

Anyway...

I went to my first EF meet this evening, and I have to say that - with a couple of exceptions - I felt like I was looking at a group of people who were perfectly happy to talk with each other, but made no effort whatsoever to be inclusive to me as a newcomer.

It might have been the weather, it might have been the loud music, it might have been that people were corralled into a raised dais in the corner, but I have never felt less welcome at an event.

Perhaps a quieter gathering would be better for a first experience, but there is definitely a clique mentality present in EF which is not conducive to fresh participants. I'd be interested to hear if other newcomers who went for the first time felt the same way, or completely disagree.

I should stress that I did have a good time, and met quite a few really nice people purely co-incidentally, so thanks for suggesting the venue. I guess that proves that it wasn't my behaviour at fault, as I found it easy to introduce myself and chat with some really interesting chaps. But to let someone who has made the effort on a rainy evening to socialise stand around like a prune won't help the forum grow.

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I find that arriving early (i.e. being one of the first at the venue) and participating at smaller gatherings makes it easier to integrate onesself into a group of people (especially those that are "regulars").

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Sorry that you didn't feel welcome - I wouldn't give up on all EF events on the back of one bad experience though, I've had some top times and met some top people through EF over the past 3 years.

Good thing is that you did have a good time and met some cool people - not everyone will hit it off with everyone, so chance of you getting on with everyone at a busy event is pretty slim.

Maybe go ahead, take the plunge and plan your own event next time and show them how the welcomes should be done

4
Borrowing from the bike wreck thread, I think in situations like this a variation of the "bystander effect" takes place. When there are groups of people already engaged and already familiar with each other, even if some kind hearts notice the new guy they figure someone else will take him under their wing.

I hate showing up to social events alone, where I know no one. Works much better if I have my wife with me .

Shini's advice is good- if you get there early you will make contact with folks much more easily and and it will be less awkward to shoehorn yourself into their conversations later.

5
I've heard similar things and there are a couple of similar threads around. I haven't experienced it myself, as I am probably even more of a snob than the rest. I don't particularly like large crowds of people, and am rarely interested in things like that. I prefer to hang out with a small group of people I know well, like 4 or 5.

That said, EF is still conducive for meeting people. I'll hang out with someone for coffee or a drink when I feel like I can relate to them. I've made a number of friends on here. And what you are seeing at these kinds of events are probably people who already know each other, so will likely converse with people they already know.

Where you having American expectations? This certainly is not the 'states. It is Europe. And the majority of folks on EF are likely to be English. I tend to gravitate towards American friends myself. When we get together, we get loud. We laugh loud, we sing loud, get wasted and don't give a damn if we make a fool of ourselves. In other words, we have a blast.

Perhaps you should try making friends with a few people rather than trying to make friends with the whole hive on your first night out.

6
hi bruce,

sorry to hear about your experience. as someone who went to the weekend drinks from the beginning, and who pretty much knows everyone, i can see how WD can be a little intimidating. it started from a group who were already attending other EF social events, mainly the talacker nights.

so yes, most of us already knew each other and thus i can see how we can come across as "cliquey" And as it isn't just for new people, it can seem like you have stepped into someone else's party.

but i have to tell you that every time i was there, and i met a new member, i always made it an effort to introduce that member to everyone else.

infact many newbies are now regulars.

i wouldn't give up after one attendance- we really are a nice bunch (honest!) unfortunately there is not much i can do now that i am here in singapore!

ps. as phos suggested, maybe join some other events also, where there are smaller groups, less noise, so you can get to know others first (ie. the dining events)

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It takes a few meets to get to know familiar faces. I'd try meeting up with someone with similar interests deal first, go to a Starbucks with one or two of your new pals and then attend an EF do together, it's easier when you know people. But I'm the most anti-social MF out there; but with the smoking ban now in effect, I'll be out there soon. The other tip is to get to know Hash Brown, because he'll introduce you to everyone on the planet..... worked for me!

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Why would he have American expectations? He's British.

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*sigh*... I hate to say it, but I totally agree. My first experience with the EF social club was quite similar... I won't elaborate because it doesn't matter. I just chalked it up to a 'probably won't do that again'-type experience.

But then I did as terryhall suggested, which was to organize my own event, and it was a great time. Finding your niche activities and meeting people while doing things outside of just sitting in a loud bar drinking really helps. I hope you won't let it discourage you from trying the many other ways to get to know people on the EF...

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I had no idea, hence the question.

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Enough with the Bystander effect reasoning already!

As far as I know, the EF is predominantly made up of people who are foreign to Switzerland. Before the first EF thing I went to, I felt a little for lack of a better word, nervous, and kind of had to push my way to it.

You have to remember one thing about people who have no prior roots in knowing each other, other than their ability to speak the same language, over an internet connection. As some one from this forum once told me at an EF event "You know, you really have NO idea who a person is, and can show up at these things. They really could be ANYONE."

So, it's not a given they are going to be as socially outwards as they are in the comfort of their own home, in PJ's, at 12:55 am. I have been fortunate to go to some events where people were willing to make an effort to get to know me, even buy me a beer, a few/couple can't remember (THANKS DOUGAL). And I found them to be very interesting and easy to talk to people. Maybe I got lucky and got all the straights and you got all the tossers(Mind you, I have no idea what an actuall tosser is. I am just dying to use that word).

I have been tempted to go to weekend drink nights, and can see from thread responses that would look a little cliquey, and it may be true. But let me suggest going some where a little less loud.

Such as the next Cheese and Beer event in Rapperswil. Easy to slowly get your feet wet, and the bathroom is actually at the end of the parking lot, AWAY from the bar part, so you can say you need to go take a leak, and simply disappear...Hey not that I ever thought that, I am from Detroit. It's a natural instinct to look for all the exits when you walk into anywhere.

Or maybe it was you. Does any of the following ring any bells?

Were you wearing a lingerie on the outside of your clothing?

Did you tell racist jokes and snort like a pig after each one of them?

Did you wear a huge piece a cheese on your head that you picked up in Green Bay and have since been dying to find another purpose to wear it out of your bathroom?

When you were about to leave did you sing "Hello, Farewell, Alweitzerzain, Good Night...I'd like to taste my first Champagne tonight?"

Did you bring a ridiculously long piece of thread, lay it out on the bar, and write on an apero napkin"EF'ers in Bars Suck Thread"!

I wouldn't sweat it too much. I may go to an event next week. If you see me on a thread RSVPing, you can go to that event and blow me off, and even things out. I'll take one for the team.

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I think this is the most recent example of a thread along the same lines, though not phrased as well as you Bruce.

The only way to shoe in to get to meet people is to :

A) (as said before) get there early (if you are able to leave work early enough depending on where you are based

B) arrange to go with someone else

C) somehow squeeze into the area where the inner sanctum are sitting, to get into the thick of it

D) Now the smoking ban is in place, deploy a fart around the group's epicentre and wait for them to disperse

A newbie is hardly likely to approach HB with his caustic posting stlye. In person he's the opposite ..... eventually after you get to know him :-)

Sygirl on the other hand is outgoing online but when I met her organising at a Treasure Hunt* wasn't quite as I expected.

I think the set up is not as bad as the original midweek Talacher bar drinks where a cleak, sorry clique, were only in it for meeting fresh meat (girls). I refused to go to these because of their cold reputation (back in the days of the now banned Dave A).

I went (late) with two friends (and we're all three really outgoing types) to the first weekend drinks last year and only just about got to meet PhilMCR, Begga (who I electrocuted) and Slaphead (what better 3 could one hope for :-) ). Everyone else was stuck in the corner.

A possible problem is that the people who get to these things first sit down in a corner and then it's difficult for someone standing to naturally break into a convesation with a group of people on a different eye level.

Hopefully in the summer, venues could be picked where everyone was standing up (outside) to make everyone more approachable.

Another good way to meet friendly people in Zurich is at the Funny Laundry stand up comedy.

There's always loads of people in smaller groups and obviously you have a something in common to talk about naturally with people you've never met before. Weekend drinks often clashes with the comedy, so maybe they just have no sense of humor (sic).

* treasure hunts are held about twice a year in Zurich and are an even better way to get to know people.

PM me if you want to meet up for next week's comedy (that goes for anyone).

Higgy Baby (HB2)

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I thought it was fun. but then I got tired and wanted to go go home. 5 minutes later, here I am. Somewhere, right now, fun people are still partying, having a blast.

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What a stupid thread.

I was there from 18:30. For 3 hours I tried to catch the eye of anyone that was lost (for future reference that shit gets you in trouble).

It was a busy bar, it was raining. We took the space we could.

I had fun, and it was not "little groups". Did anyone know who you were? Did you introduce? If you had, I would have introduced you.

Seriously, what the hell is with slagging off people who make an event? She actually was there, unlike that Mary Bird, and she wore exactly what she said she was going to. I recognised her.

I don't mean to be rude, I would have loved to have met you, but when are you going to stop being spoon fed?

I hope you come to the next one, and I will make sure you feel welcome... Just let us know who you are.

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Wow, it cool but not as much fun when we went to Talacker, what the heck were you guys doing??

It's true, that's a lovely event, people really warm and social. Besides, if one is new, it is always better to show up to an event that has a program, like eating, etc.

I think the OP does not come from the land where everything is possible and individuality even craziness so encouraged.. Heh, that made me laugh so hard, though, thanks. Now I know why the neighbors don't want to hang out with us.

OP, never mind the awkwardness that sometimes happens, shrug it off..Or, take a three hour train ride to an EF event next time and have a couple of drinks before you actually meet people, you will be surprised how easy everything will go..

17
I used to arrange weekly dinners in Stuttgart. In parallel someone started arranging weekly (ended up being three times a week - Stuttgart is half to one third the price of Basel) drinks.

Younger people, i.e. late teens to early 20s tended to make one of the drinks nights their first event as the idea of barging into a large, loud group of people in a bar suits them. Most people made their first event one of my dinners as, even when they were in full swing and had 20-30 people turning up, we were usually spread on tables of 6 or 8, so newbies could get to know a small group of people in relative ease.

This was all on toytown which is a parallel group to this one, so it should work the same way.

My advice ... just jump in and introduce yourself, or make online friends with someone and arrange to go with them, or go to a smaller event as your first one.

I know that all been said already, but I had many people thank me for arranging the events I did, and I know personally (i.e. for me too) that meeting expats and kicking off a new social life is very important. So give it another go.

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and it's even more difficult when you don't speak english very well

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Some people feel 'at ease' in a pub, meeting people they don't know...

I don't...that's why I do the 'shopping tour' - which, by the way, seems to be a good way of meeting people too...

I have two shopping tours booked for May...check them out on the calendar...shameless plug, I know...

Forumites come in all shapes and sizes...but that doesn't actually mean that they are all 'friendly' 'outgoing' or 'your type'....putting yourself forward can be stressful (it is for me!) - but worth it if you find a few good people who become friends along the way...

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First time i went to an event i just talked to anyone. I figured i dont know anyone so no matter what happens i would come better off in the end.

It worked and i made some great friends and met loads of interesting people. Ok so you talk to someone and they brush you off. Big deal. Go on to the next one.

And a tip: Always find the organiser. He/she will want their event to be successful so they will make sure you have a good time! As long as you are not some annoying pr*ck that is