MEDICAL SPECIALISATION/ RESIDENCY in Switzerland

Family, Education, Health and Pets
141
Hey Docmd

Your last posts in this thread (20.06.2020): You are a non EU citizen (from Lebanon, if I am correct) and I presume, you completed your medical education over there. You’re ecfmg registered and now GMC as well as.

As you know that the registration as ECFMG or being part of GMC or passing PLAB (UK) or Australian medical council (AMC) exam are special circumstances: Only MEBEKO can answer you precisely because they are competent authority for such stuffs.

Honestly, I haven’t came across someone who has qualified USMLE or PLAB or MRCP. I have no experience with this as well as.

My suggestions in your case:

1. Decide a country, where you want to be in long term basis : US or UK or CH. In general (apartment from Corona situation), doctors are required globally especially in all developed countries.

2. Fulfill all the requirements of decided country.

3. If you decide for CH: contact MEBEKO directly because:

3.1. You will rarely find someone who have passed USMLE or PLAB (UK) or MRCP (UK) or AMC exam & moved to Switzerland for specialization.

3.2. MeBeGe or Law for medical profession have changed drastically during last few years (especially for non-EUs) willing to pursue medical specialization. Many branches are reorganized with new requirements for: hospitals, prospective specialists, cat. ओफ़ hospital etc.

With reference to Switzerland: you can speak French fluently - an advantage and you’re eager joining a specialisation program here. In this regard, I have written you a brief process on 21.06.2020.

Hopefully, these dot points would help you

Have a great evening

Khalid

142
Thank you for your reply!

My main problem with Switzerland, even though it is where I would prefer to go, is how hard it is to find a position. I'm not interested in starting in psychiatry for a year then moving to internal/family medicine and I've emailed every hospital/clinic on the website but either no one answers me, they tell me they don't have any positions, or they tell me to apply through their website and then reject me lol.

I was this close to registering with MEBEKO but the 860$ fee made me reassess my position given that I'm not guaranteed to find a position. I actually applied to the US but unfortunately did not match, and since I don't want to lose any more time (I'm 2 years post graduation), I decided I'll be heading to the UK in the next couple of months.

I also have the option to specialize in France but that's another topic.

I know I'm likely confusing you but with everything falling apart in my country, I'm looking for the easiest way out which seems to be the UK for now. But I was hoping that by specializing there, I'd be able in some way to get recognition in Switzerland.

Thank you againfor your constant help!

143
Hey Docmd

I can understand your circumstances but applying for and getting a resident job (if not living here or working in EU) is almost impossible and you would just get a negative reply as far as I know .

In order to get here as non EU residents, one need to have a concrete reason (mostly a job offer or joining an immediate family member in CH) >> one get a resident permit. This way: one third residents in specialization programs are having non EU drs, as swiss medical graduates (at the end of medical Masters =6th year) are just 1345 per year. I have attached here few statistical PDFs - for others who are planning for CH.

In very special case: hospitals apply directly for resident doctor’s resident permit. Mostly in such cases are when they are unable to find residents in certain areas like psychiatry etc. As I said earlier, these are too mostly in remote areas, as most of the employers prefer unemployed resident within CH or medical graduates from EU countries.

I wish you all the best for your future

Because of dramatic corona situation in France, as I know from colleagues, the French govt. have recognised the non EU degrees last year unconditionally, who were working over there. But please do contact someone over there for finer details & about the current scenarios. That would be a alternative option for you.

You’re welcome

Khalid

144
Hi everyone, I was hoping you could help me with something.

On the official form which sets out what is needed for direct recognition of a medical degree, for a lot of European countries the following additional paperwork is required:

"certified copy of conformity with European Directive 2005/36/EC of the competent authority"

I understand that this Directive relates to recognition of registered professions but I don't know what this document is or how to get it! I'm in the UK- does anyone know where I can get this certified copy of conformity?

Thanks!!

145
Wow!! What an amazing explanation. Thank you! I have a question. If you finish residency and fellowship in a specialty in the US do you need to redo the fellowship in Switzerland, the German parts? Do they even have a fellowship program? thank you.

146
Hey there

Best way: contact MEBEKO >> ask them - from which competent authority you could get this certified copy?

Do let us know as well, about the solution.

Have a nice day

Khalid

147
It means your medical degree + certificate of experience given at the end of F1 (i.e showing you have a full licence to practice)

148
Hello

It depends on a lot of factors in particular what kind of specialisation, you're in. Try to contact FMH, they could answer you more precisely.. Again, it depends upon your branch. Fellowship programs are offered through many private clinics// institutes. For your particular branch, better ask FMH/ associations (eg: Swiss association of plastic surgerons) for the list of institutes/ clinic's providing fellowship.

Depending upon your interest, you can also browse (in german/french):

www.siwf.ch >> Weiterbildung >> fachausweis/ schwerpunkt.

www.siwf.ch >> Fortbildung

I haven't read these sections, you need to explore yourself over there, (what you are looking for)...!

Have a nice weekend

Khalid

149
In the U.K. that would be the General Medical Council who will issue you with that letter. You can only obtain it at the end of F1 though, so when you get full licence. You just have to contact them via email or phone to ask for that letter, ask them to send you a copy and to send another one to MEBEKO. That’s what I did.

150
Guys I have an emergency. I sent my documents to MEBEKO for recognition a while ago, and they asked for 390 francs as payment. However, as things in my country are becoming worse and worse I decided to cancel my application.

However, my friend who lives in Switzerland and whose address I used to receive their mails, received a paper that MEBEKO has still not received their payment and that if they don't, they will forward the bill to the "Federal Administration of Finances" who will start the process of debt collection.

Am I obligated to pay the 390 francs? All I did was send my documents to them and they sent me the bill to pay, that's it. Can I cancel my application?

151
If you're in Beirut I guess their chance of collecting the debt is virtually zero, so why not write to them with a polite "sorry but I don't want to continue the application, please can you cancel the process and the debt" letter.

There's at least some chance they don't want the hassle any more than you do.

152
I just did but I'm worried cause my friend in Switzerland told me they could send it to court and affect my chances to apply for a visa to Europe. I'm planning on going to the UK in the next few months to start working there, and I don't want bullshit like this to ruin it.

153
You're not going to get much sympathy calling it "bullshit".

You asked them for a service and are now not wanting to pay for it; some humility would be appropriate.

154
Except they didn't do any services. They received my papers and sent me a payment for something called "beginning of process verification". They haven't started working on my application yet pending payment, hence why I'm calling it bullshit.

155
I think you haven't understood how it works. As far as I understand it, these kinds of assessment processes usually state, on the website, that knocking on their door by sending them your papers is, automatically, the start of the process, and will incurr fees. In other words, it costs them to receive your papers and to put them somewhere, which will be in a file (probably electronic) that they opened with your name and address and reference number, etc. That is work that they do, and they don't consider that as being for free. Typically, there may be more fees to pay as they complete further stages of the work they do for you.

Therefore, I think that the advice you've been given above, by newtoswitz is good. I recommend that you write to them again, apologising for the inconvenience, stating that you are withdrawing your application, and asking for the fee to be waived, since you are in a country with a significantly different currency (and perhaps because you didn't realise that sending in your documents would incurr a charge). Be sure to use their reference numbers, and enclose a copy of their latest correspondence, with their invoice, to make it quick and easy for them to find you in their system.

I presume you've been doing this by mail. If that's the case, then I recommend not only mailing them, but also mailing that letter to your friend in Switzerland, and asking him to send it, by registered post, as well, because registered letters are the correct way to do formal changes, in Switzerland.

If your letter is well-crafted, low-key and very polite, you might find that a charitable person in their office will be kind enough to cancel your liability to pay the fee, and it'll all be good.

156
Ah I see. You're right, I didn't know that just sending them my documents would incur a fee. I have actually opted to communicate via email, as I have prior contact with one of the officers there regarding payment. I just have to wait for a reply Monday and hope for the best, but the stress is killing me and I'm already under a lot of daily stress.

Thank you anyway.

157
Here's hoping it will all work out well for you!

158
Can you share your experience on the process of writing your dissertation? start date, finish date, For example who was your supervisor, in what university you registered with, how you chose a topic, what topic you chose, in what language your dissertation was, how long it took you to write a dissertation, how intensive and time consuming a dissertation is? @drremobond007

159

Hey drMichaelswiss

Sorry for delayed reply. I got quite absorbed at my new job.

Congratulations with your new job in internal medicine.I remember her: yeah, I guess, She asked me few things in 2017. I’m glad to know that it helped you.

Regarding the dissertation:

Immatriculation / registration at university:

I contacted my medical director (a psychiatrist: Prof. Müller) for my PhD dissertation, who is also an enrolled professor at university of Bern. He signed few application forms as a mentor with certain deadline of completion (like data accumulation, drafting, researching the topic, final drafting, presentation at Uni Bern etc) . Thus was meant: that mentor would take full responsibility to nurture- help all the way till presenting it. I and a resident doctor/colleague joined to do it together given vast info we had. (In may 2019, we were enrolled as medical PhD students at Uni Bern).

Cost:

University admission cost was CHF 100 (one time payment as enrollment fee). Thereafter, CHF 200/semester. So far it is completely reimbursed through hospital (doctors research fund).

Topic:

We are doing our PhD dissertation (retrospective basis) on a psychological disease. Intially, professor gave us 2-3 topics. Then our topic was mutually finalized, considering various requirements & aspects.

Progression:

Once topic was decided, we had around 1100 medical files (650/ resident dr) from hospital archive to read & summarise each one of them. So, I need post working hrs, 1-1.5hrs per day, (5days a week for 4-4.5 months). In order to see the progress, we met almost 1x/month and we decided together about the improvements, deletions suggestions etc.

We had few medical files in French & many were handwritten- not easy to read, so we got them translated within our hospital through a coworker. Many of them were documented using typing machine.

Final Drafting:

Last April, we started with final drafting, but given the corona situation & some software glitches- we haven’t progressed a lot further. In meanwhile I have changed 2 hospitals completing my 2 elective years of internal medicine. So, hopefully we will complete it this year.

Language:

With enormous data on various psychiatric disorders and conditions during those times (1920-1965): we want to publish them in international journals apart from presenting it at university of Bern. So, we have decided to do our dissertation in English, which is a lot easier for us.

Data privacy w.r.t. medical files

Since all patients had life span ranging from (1880 - 1980s), we needed certain permission from state government, which was taken care by our mentor.

Hopefully, it will provide you in meantime some insight about PhD dissertation.

Have a nice day

K

PS: in Switzerland, medical students (during their 3-4th year) do the master dissertation (Masterarbeit) as well as. I don’t know much about it in depth. What I know is if mentor wants, they could let you enroll as doctoral dissertation/ thesis as well.

160
Hello I am hoping to get some advice from local doctors here in CH!

I am a UK junior doctor looking to relocate to Switzerland to join my fiance (C permit but has lived and worked in Switzerland all his life). Already have my UK med licence recognised by MEBEKO and already been through a few interviews for general surgery. Unfortunately and understandably, unable to obtain working permit despite successful interviews due to Brexit. My fiance and I have therefore decided to bring our wedding forward to this summer so that I can subsequently live and work with Switzerland. I anticipate my B permit to be issued by the end of this year but probably won't be able to start working until at least May 2022 (next intake). I am bilingual English/French and planning to work in Romandie.

I am aware that a few other non-EU doctors might have gone through the same experience. My question: With technically 6-8months 'off work' as a doctor and whilst admin things are waiting to be sorted out, what can I do in the meantime to stay productive and relevant (academically of course, ?assistantship ?volunteering ?learning german etc?) I am aware this will all depend on my choice of specialty but would really like to hear from those who have been there before me!

Thank you!